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I think it's funny that people seem reluctant to admit that there are tiers (which are just a less specific version of a power rankings list), but seem willing to admit that some armies are more powerful than another.

The tiers system is an over generalization, that like all over generalizations contains a good and true thing that is then applied in times and cases where it is no longer good and true.

Fact #1: Given changing core rules, and an ever changing pool of legal codices, the power of any given codex is going to wax and wane. Because of this, the codices are not all on the same level of power.

Fact #2: The vast bulk of 40k players are restricted to a small player/army pool, and are immune from much of the impact of fact #1.

Fact #3: Given fact #2, and the relative rarity of some armies (IG, DE, and Demons all fit this bill), some armies have success beyond their theoretical limits due to the lack of experience players have facing them.

Fact #4: In a small local environment, an odd shift in demographics can change dramitcally what armies are top.

Fact #5: Good players in 40k, with a well built list, can succeed with any codex, as long as success is measured generously. Good players can and do win RTTs with Grey Knights and DA.

Fact #6: Fact #5 doesn't change that it's easier to win with a strong army.

There are tiers. We can argue where some armies fall, and we can argue why some armies are in the tier they are, but all else being equal (skilled players, balanced missions, and equal luck), the best built armies out of some codices are more likely to win games than the best built armies out of other codices.

So, here is my rough tier system, with the rankings based on "how will do the best army or armies out of this codex do in the current competitive game against other good builds."

Top
Chaos: P.O.D. can deal with nearly any army, and have no giant exploits. A tournament winner for almost 2 years now, Chaos keeps this spot until truly replaced.

IG: While not as hard as chaos, nobody can bring more firepower in 5th. With new mobility and the dirt cheap chimera, IG's only flaw is that it's still new, and the community might find a way to reliably deal with AV12. Also, unlike chaos, IG can't hope to succeed in assault.

The question marks

Orks: No real way to deal with AV14 (assuming no deff rollas) creates a giant blind spot. IG and Chaos can reliably handle both battlewagon spam and green tide. 5th edition combat res hurts Orks against a really tough assault army.

Demons: while the codex has maybe 7 good units, they're pretty evenly spread out. They have the tools to deal with all the top armies, but have two major weaknesses. First, Demonic assault and the random nature of deep strike make it possible that good units will be destroyed or delayed. Second, Imperial armies can get a 40pt unit that monkeys with Demons pretty hard. Demons succeed, but how much of that is simply due to most players not having a lot of experience against them?

Contenders

Eldar: While overcosted and undergunned compared to most of the 5th edition books, eldar still have durable transports, good units, and very potent HQs. Eldar also have some tricky builds. IME they struggle a lot against plague marines, and IG can simply do what eldar do 75% as well for 50% of the cost.

Space marines: Certainly not underpowered, but everybody plays them, and plays against them. Nobody gets the drop on their opponents when plays Marines. They have the best land raiders, some of the best anti-landraider units, and TH/SS terminators.

The enigmas:

Dark Eldar: the last great gunline. 5th edition made raider horde good again. Stuck with a half dozen decent units, but it's enough to build a good army. The general dip in the number of long range heavies helps DE a lot. Rarity makes it hard to truly ascertain their power.

Witch Hunters: Another rare army that's surprisingly good. Kill points become a bit of an issue.

The deeply Mediocre
Black Templars
Blood Angels
Tyranids
Tau
Dark Angels


The notably weak
Demonhunters
Necrons

i disagree, slightly.

While it's true you can't knock out a land raider with S8 shooting, you can keep it stunned, shaken, or immobile, and knock out it's guns if you shoot it enough times. Three exorcist tanks make most armies cry, and even a land raider will feel the burn from all those rockets. KMBs also tend to work pretty well, both against the land raider and it's cargo. While it's also true that ork players don't have any guns over S8, they do have a vehicle mounted weapon that can inflict a (single) S9 hit....though it's unlikely you will ever get to use it, but if he has to get close with his land raider anyways you might as well try it.

Edit: and necron warriors ALWAYS GLANCE on a six. It's like a bigger badder rending rule. Still, shooting warriors at a land raider still ends up being pretty innefective (And as I have seen, necrons rapid firing necrons never ends, it'd be pretty much the same blasting away at marines, only marines have the option to shoot with bolt pistols and charge.)

Edit 2: And can't daemon hunters load up on lascannons?

People really shouldnt use tournaments as a way of building a tier system for armies.

Why? its due to the most common lists here.
You will find that for every 10 ork lpayers there is a dark eldar or grey knight player.
This really does reduce the chance of that player getting through, not because GK's are considered bad, but because with all those ork players he needs to keep in the tournie.

If you take 30 players and have the following:

10 ork players
10 marine players
5 eldar players
2 necron players
2 tau players
1 dark eldar player

At the end of the tournament you will find that the lower numbers have been removed, unless of course the general is good.
Im willing to bet that a BA player could go all the way in a tourney if the general knew what he was doing.
Knights struggle a bit due to low numbers, but by all means that doesent make them bottom tier.

I think it's funny that people seem reluctant to admit that there are tiers (which are just a less specific version of a power rankings list), but seem willing to admit that some armies are more powerful than another.

The tiers system is an over generalization, that like all over generalizations contains a good and true thing that is then applied in times and cases where it is no longer good and true.

I think an overgeneralization like the tiers system souldn´t be applied to 40k codex's. From a Codex you can make very many different types of army's some strong and some weaker. Because the product of a codex isn't constant, you can't rank it. You can rate an army list and devide them into Tiers, but even this is very difficult because there preformance depends on the opposing army.

It is pretty easy, however, to point out where the codex is lacking.

You can say Chaos Lash is Awesome! or an footslogging Zerkers army sucks!
But you can't say "the chaos codex is better/worst than the rest of the codexes" It simpy just depends on x, y and possibly z.
You can say however; Nids are lacking anti-tank.

@starbomber109 You do realize you need an average of 18 shots with an BS 2 Rokkit to glance a landraider, and 54 to stop (immo/shake) a LR and even 108 if it has extra armour? For those who didn't notice, Orks need to stop a LR to kill it. Now do that times 3.

Joostuh wrote:

@starbomber109 You do realize you need an average of 18 shots with an BS 2 Rokkit to glance a landraider, and 54 to stop (immo/shake) a LR and even 108 if it has extra armour? For those who didn't notice, Orks need to stop a LR to kill it. Now do that times 3.

Fair enough, but what if the rokkit is twin linked and BS3?

Edit: I guess that's why the taktica on this site said "You can NEVER have enough rokkits" I didn't realize it was so literal :(

Timmah wrote:swing and a miss clthomps

If you want my real tier list

T1
Tau
IG
Eldar
DE

T2
SM
SW
Sisters

T2.5
Chaos
Orks

T3
Nids
necrons
DH
Daemons

I agree with most on this list. I would drop tau to tier 2 or 2.5. Eldar and SW might be switching places on Oct 3rd.

@starbomber109 You don't get those, BS3 or TL yes, but both, not that I know of. With BS 3 you'll need 12 with TL 10,8.

@imweasel Whenever your in the Netherlands (if ever lol) come see me, I'll show you what well build Tau armies are capable of.

TOP TIER
Chaos
Orks
I. Guard
Daemons

GOOD TIER
Dark Eldar
Space Marines
Eldar

MID TIER
Sisters
Tau

LOW TIER
Tyranids
Necrons
Daemon Hunters

Tier 1:

1. Eldar
2. Space Marines
3. Space Wolves
4. Imperial Guard

Tier 2:

5. Dark Eldar
6. Tau Empire
7. Sisters of Battle
8. Chaos Daemons
9. Orks

Tier 3:

9. Daemonhunters
10. Tyranids
11. Necrons


This is how I would rank the armies and their abilities. Smurf Dex gives you SO much it's easily a T1 list. Space Pups codex is VERY strong and the psychic offense and Defense is the real kicker here.

IG - Meched up it's obvious why. Another strength of IG & Smurfs is taking WH & DH allies. Don't forget that.

Dark Eldar are very strong, but extremely 1 dimensional. When you face DE in a tourney you know you are facing RAF. That is why it isn't a Tier 1 army IMHO.

Tau are VERY strong but not enough good tau players.

SoB are just nasty. Immolator horde anyone?

Both CD and Orks suffer from AV14 syndrome. And I think CD can actually kill it better. With PK's being orks ONLY real anti-heavy armor or even anti-RELIABLE armor, they just can't be T1 or higher up. Lootas can't solve everything. IG armies with PBS break lootas and Nob Bikerz faster than you can take the dead or broken squads off the table.

CD are to random to be higher but that doesn't mean that they aren't strong.

Nids and DH just can't do enough to be higher.


Top Lists?

1. Dual Jetcouncil / Jetcouncil Eldar
2. Raider Airforce
3. Vulcan
4. Alphastrike Guard
5. Mechanized Guard in general
6. Immolator Horde
7. Fateweaver