Drunkspleen wrote:...I'm likely biased with regards to this...
I'm with you on the biased. I spent the better part of an hour trying to dig something up that would let it work (
IMO). Not only am I a fan of the
DE, but it would make me feel especially fuzzy to watch units like the Grey Knights in a "Retrograde Redployment".
I'd be interested to know if you can think of another example of "automatically" where it is in fact dependent on a special rule the target unit may have because I cannot think of any, although I acknowledge that it's not necessarily an argument for grotesques functioning the way I believe they do.
A lot of the examples that are going to come up are going to involve
Fearless and issues with it, since
GW seems to enjoy creating things that are "too horrible to behold", then turn around and make units that consider soul-eating monsters formed from mankind's deepest fears to be somewhat "meh" (usually Space Marines of some variety...
lol).
I think the two words which have caused the most debates in
40k are probably "automatically" and "invulnerable". A lot of
SoB players have argued that the inferno pistol could hurt the Eldar avatar since he's only immune to melta and flamer weapons (and the inferno pistol is only described as having the same effect, not actually "called" a melta weapon).
GW FAQ'd that one at least.
One they missed, and I'm sure it's caused a few heated debates over the gaming table is the Black Templars
ATSKNF rule. First, it never mentions that it's a "Black Templar" special rule. It says it's a Space Marine rule. I'm sure someone's tried to argue that one. Second, it says they "automatically pass all Morale tests to regroup", and
GW has firmly stated that a regroup test is not a Morale test. The last sentence of that section reads "They will always regroup after each fallback move...", so is that read, they will always "attempt/test to regroup" or they will always "automatically regroup". It's come up often enough for the
INAT FAQ to have a section for it.
One I can think of in the same "spirit" as "automatically" if not the wording, is that if an
IG army with a Primaris Psyker is in a unit with a Commisar, and suffers a Perils of the Warp result from his psychic test, he is "immediately executed and removed as a casualty, but against a Tyranid army with Shadow in the Warp, all PotW results are "nullified". Typically, when
GW uses the wording "nullified", they mean it still happens, but has no effect. So if it still happens, even without effect, it's still "suffers" the PotW so is executed by the Commisar.
These sorts of "debates" occur quite often where the older codices are in use. They would use different words to mean the same thing, or in many cases, it's just suffering from poor editing. And they can be especially bad about not cross checking between codices. In the
DH/
WH Armory lists, where a Bolter is 2pts for the
SoB Inquisitor and 1pt for the
GK Inquisitor. In addition, the
DH bolter (24"/4/5/
RF) is 1pt and the Hellgun (24"/3/5/
RF) is 2pts. So the bolter is 1 pt stronger and 1 pt cheaper. Ok, I know arguing over "one" point is pretty much pointless (no pun intended) in armies numbering hundreds if not thousands of points, but what I'm driving at with that example is that if
GW can't be bothered to even double-check something as simple as a wargear list, we definitely can't expect them to hammer out an ironclad wording to eliminate discrepancies. Especially since they're prone to changing the way they define things from one edition to the next.
What usually happens is you end up with two groups, one side arguing the exact wording (even sometimes going so far as to argue verb tense), and another arguing "if it looks like a duck...". I'm
usually in the second camp, as it's my feeling that often the "discrepancy" is nothing more than a change in wording between editions, or poor editing/clarification. Like the original query that started this thread, does a Terrorfex work on Fearless units. No, it doesn't specifically call it a "pinning" test, but then, an inferno pistol isn't called a melta weapon either. Is it a pinning test?
IMO, yes, I don't care it it doesn't specifically say so. Is a Dark Lance a "lance weapon"?
IMO, yes. Can grotesques chase off a Fearless unit?
IMO, no. Even though the wording may not be precise, the intent is pretty much the same, and while we're all arguing the semantics of "does" vs. "did", we're ignoring the real problem, which is someone needs to instigate a few Morale-check inducing scenarios over at
GW until we get a decent/updated
DE codex...
lol