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2009/11/13 15:37:14
Subject: Re:When doing the right thing beggars prosecution. Zero tolerance
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Fixture of Dakka
Manchester UK
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Why is it of vital importance to jail people who can prove beyond the shadow of doubt that they were only possessing contraband to bring it to the proper authorities?
It's not, although the guy had the gun in his posession overnight (why? Seems a bit dodgy...) and transported it to the cop-shop himself. That could be construed as placing the public at risk. The gun could have fallen into the wrong hands.
But I don't want to see the guy go down - there are plenty of worse criminals in the UK who need locking up. But he was technically guilty - they had no choice but to arrest him, IMO.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/13 15:37:54
 Cheesecat wrote:
I almost always agree with Albatross, I can't see why anyone wouldn't.
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2009/11/13 17:29:09
Subject: When doing the right thing beggars prosecution. Zero tolerance
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Da Head Honcho Boss Grot
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Alright, I can see the argument for the arrest, I was more thinking in terms of the law itself.
(The gun was probably less likely to fall into the wrong hands in his house than lying around where anyone could pick it up, so I don't really think that's as good of a reason.)
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Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
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2009/11/13 18:22:25
Subject: When doing the right thing beggars prosecution. Zero tolerance
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Fixture of Dakka
Manchester UK
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The safest thing would have been to call the police immediately, not take it into his house and leave it there overnight.
I just don't see how the law could make allowances for this situation without being too ambiguous.
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Cheesecat wrote:
I almost always agree with Albatross, I can't see why anyone wouldn't.
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2009/11/13 19:16:20
Subject: Re:When doing the right thing beggars prosecution. Zero tolerance
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Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper
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Seems to me this started by some police officer being a bastiche. He turns it in, they should have said "Thanks mate" and left it off at that.
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2009/11/13 19:38:52
Subject: Re:When doing the right thing beggars prosecution. Zero tolerance
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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Indeed.
I'm frankly astonished the CPS or the Judge didn't throw the case out as not being in the public interest.
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
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2009/11/13 20:00:41
Subject: When doing the right thing beggars prosecution. Zero tolerance
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Da Head Honcho Boss Grot
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Simply allow proof of good faith in compliance with the law to be a defense against it. It still forces the accused to prove something to be true to the jury as a defense, so it's not an easy defense to be making. Still, it allows the jury to decide in the face of overwhelming evidence not to convict someone who shouldn't be convicted.
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Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
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2009/11/13 20:15:15
Subject: When doing the right thing beggars prosecution. Zero tolerance
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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It's all bullgak. No matter how you slice it.
If I turned in a handgun or rifle I found to the police station I wouldn't even get asked my name. I'd just say "I found this laying alongside the road while walking my dog, I don't know who owns it but I figured I should turn it in so it can be printed or traced" and I'd receive a big thank you and be allowed to go about my business; not slapped with cuffs and accused of being a felon.
Guess this shows how vastly different views on guns are between the US and Europe.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/13 20:15:55
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
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2009/11/13 20:18:33
Subject: When doing the right thing beggars prosecution. Zero tolerance
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Fixture of Dakka
Manchester UK
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@Fateweaver - yes, but you live in america where gun laws are very different to the UK.
I personally believe some american laws to be 'bullgak', but I just chalk it up to cultural differences. I know which legal system I'd rather live under.
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Cheesecat wrote:
I almost always agree with Albatross, I can't see why anyone wouldn't.
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2009/11/13 20:19:43
Subject: When doing the right thing beggars prosecution. Zero tolerance
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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To each his own.
You love your country, I love mine. We are still the country with more guns..... 
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--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
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2009/11/13 20:24:07
Subject: When doing the right thing beggars prosecution. Zero tolerance
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Fixture of Dakka
Manchester UK
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True, but we have cooler accents.
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Cheesecat wrote:
I almost always agree with Albatross, I can't see why anyone wouldn't.
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2009/11/13 20:27:16
Subject: When doing the right thing beggars prosecution. Zero tolerance
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Says you. Only the Irish have cool accents (oh and are angry and drink a lot). Not a personal jab as I think that's a really good trait to have. 
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--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
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2009/11/13 21:01:04
Subject: When doing the right thing beggars prosecution. Zero tolerance
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Da Head Honcho Boss Grot
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Albatross wrote:I personally believe some american laws to be 'bullgak', but I just chalk it up to cultural differences.
Some of our drug laws boggle my mind.
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Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
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2009/11/13 21:18:39
Subject: When doing the right thing beggars prosecution. Zero tolerance
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Yeah, like how being stoned while driving brings a lesser fine/sentence than being drunk when alcohol is fething legal and marijuana isn't?
That's mind boggling.
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--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
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2009/11/13 21:20:58
Subject: When doing the right thing beggars prosecution. Zero tolerance
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Da Head Honcho Boss Grot
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Is that so? I would guess alcohol has scaled up as infractions become more common or something.
Still, you'd think intoxicated driving would be set across the board.
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Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
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2009/11/13 21:30:04
Subject: When doing the right thing beggars prosecution. Zero tolerance
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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You'd think but it isn't, at least not according to some of my deputy friends.
Also, don't get me started on drug dealers, of ANY type.
Minnesota's law exempts marijuana and marijuana metabolites, stating, "It is a crime for any person to drive, operate, or be in physical control of any motor vehicle ... when the person's body contains any amount of a controlled substance in schedule I or II other than marijuana or tetrahydrocannabinols."
So yeah, having any drug in your system OTHER THAN marijuana while driving is illegal. So you can be stoned and drive but not drunk and drive.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/13 21:38:44
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
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2009/11/15 16:07:31
Subject: When doing the right thing beggars prosecution. Zero tolerance
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Fixture of Dakka
Manchester UK
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Yeah, that's been changed in the UK recently - if the cops pull you, and your intoxicated with anything, you get nicked.
Not sure how they tell, never happened to me.
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Cheesecat wrote:
I almost always agree with Albatross, I can't see why anyone wouldn't.
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