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Lyracian wrote:I play 40k with friends for fun so do not have rules problems with them. The closest we get is telling people to change there list for the next game.

The poor quality of the 40k rules would be a major reason why I would not play in a tournament. There are other games out there with much better rule sets.

I think this is a very common fallacy, the "if you're just playing for fun, there won't be any problems."

Everyone plays 40k for fun.

Lets say you have two friends playing a game of 40k.

An ambiguous rules issue comes up, each player lies on one side of it.

Player A thinks that the rules best support his point of view, and that player B should give up the ruling to him, after all, it's just a game and its for fun.

Player B thinks the rules best support his point of view, and that player A should give up the ruling to him, after all, it's just a game and its for fun.

Eventually, they roll-off. Even though their just playing "for fun" the player that loses the roll-off feels like he got cheated.

I used to have arguments over fantasy battles when I played that as a kid. I stopped playing table top mini games for ~7 years and am now playing 40k. My friends and I stopped our bickering and we just roll off if we can't resolve it in a quick rulebook reference.

Fierce arguments over toy soldier rules was something I did during the game as a kid. Now the most I'll get into is a forum debate or after-game revisit of a rules question.

HI all.
Having played a wide range of games , I can honestly say that 40k has the most game play issues caused by poor rules writing.
21 years of playing wargames , and 40k has caused more player disagreements at our games club than all the other rule sets put together!

Most game companies write rules based on game play issues.
GW PLC writes 40k rules based on marketing issues.

And it is blatently obvious in comparison!

'Play for fun..' does NOT excuse apauling rules writeing, commitment to game play should be the same no matter what the level of competition inherent in the rule set.

Enjoyment of any game is proportional to the quality of the rule set.
Well defined comprehensive rules deliver far better gaming experiances than confusing counterintuitive efforts .

As many people collect convert build and paint purley to play a game , if the end game is sub par , why bother?

Game play is THE most important factor for gamers, no matter what genre or scale.

Happy gaming ,
Lanrak.

willydstyle wrote:
I think this is a very common fallacy, the "if you're just playing for fun, there won't be any problems."
Everyone plays 40k for fun.
Eventually, they roll-off. Even though their just playing "for fun" the player that loses the roll-off feels like he got cheated.

I think you are misunderstanding what I mean by 'playing for fun'. If a players list is five points over one week, or a charge would take them within 1" of another unit we do not care. It may not obey RAW but it is close enough for fun. Occasionally we look something up in a rule book or just role a dice and check it out later. No one feels cheated.

Are the rest of the German codexes better written?

If so they should definitely get that guy in Nottingham.