Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Primachs can feel fear.

Sanguinius, during the Siege of Terra wrote:Three Legions of Marines stand to defend you, sire. All of us will unflinchingly place ourselves between you and the war’s desolation. We are the greatest humans ever born – we are the flame of Humanity where the rest of the galaxy is just the spark. In centuries of warfare, against the vileness of the alien, the lies of the heretic, the foulness of the mutant, I have never known fear – but your silence terrifies me.

Granted, he said he'd never felt fear at the normal battle stuff. Facing the displeasure of the Emperor or the threat of him getting killed is probably not something that the indoctrination covers.

Biologically, the function is there. Proof is in the following spoiler.



So the matter pretty much only concerns a Space Marine being able to feel such a degree of sadness as to cry.

I feel I need to point out there's more than one kind of fear out there.

Firstly, there's the kind of fear for your own life (panic), which is a direct result of the survival instinct all humans are born with. With proper indoctrination and drilling (and a bit of recklesness or a deathwish), this can be overcome. This is the kind of fear you'd expect someone would feel during a fire fight, when bolter rounds are flying all over the place. It's a pretty specific thing - you know there is a chance you'll die horribly, just not if it will be fast or not. This is a reflex, usually related to adrenaline levels or lack of thereof (the opposite of an adrenaline induced rush), and is pretty much what "... and they shall know no fear refers to"

Then, there's the rational fear (terror, very acute uncertainty), caused by a sudden realization that things are likely to or will certainly go wrong and there's nothing you can do about it. You don't know what will happen, you don't know what the outcome or the consequences will be, etc. Pretty much everything that would dramatically and suddenly alter the way you look at things can trigger this.
This usually involves a lot more than the primal fear of death, since the mind is surprisingly good at discovering ways in which things can go wrong for you without actually getting killed. There's pretty much no way to effectively block out this kind of feeling except lobotomy, since your brain is actually thinking about this. Despite the space marine's conditioning, if this kind of feeling reaches a certain intensity, I'd wager this has the potential to make even a hardened space marine burst into tears.

I'm not exactly a specialist in psychology or medicine, of course, and I'm not sure these are the accurate mechanisms of fear, but somehow I always saw this kind of distinction between survival instincts and fear

remember, SM are still human, they're super-human, also their hippocampi (the part of the brain that deals with your emotions and balance) is not removed.

because, IIRC they wouldn't be able to hear, and they wouldn't be able to stand without stumbling.

I'd say that the primal fear of death is actually the bit that they get rid of. Or at least contain to the point that it doesn't affect them. If a marine can do the dolphin's trick of letting one half of their mind sleep at a time during lulls in combat (the sort of situation that they need to remain alert for danger but aren't being active at that moment) then they can probably segment that instinctual fear and separate it from their conscious actions. Maybe channel it into aggression or similar.

I'd also argue that all SM have a death wish; they wish to die on the battle field fighting in the name of the Emperor. That doesn't mean they are going to just let themselves be killed, more that they will go in piece when an enemy finally overwhelms them and drags them down, even as they attempt to take as many foes with them as possible.

Morgrim wrote:I'd also argue that all SM have a death wish; they wish to die on the battle field fighting in the name of the Emperor. That doesn't mean they are going to just let themselves be killed, more that they will go in piece when an enemy finally overwhelms them and drags them down, even as they attempt to take as many foes with them as possible.

Well, of course, that's kind of the definition of a deathwish: you have to work for it, otherwise it's just gonna be simple suicidal tendencies