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Don't forget tank shocks.

It's actually harder to bunch models up with tank shocks than most believe.

If the final position of the tank is not over any models, then the tank-shocked unit doesn't actually have to move at all.

If the final position is in the middle of the unit and displaces models, then the blast might not be usable because it can't be placed touching the friendly tank.

The whole concept of tank-shocking stuff into clumps works much better with the flamer template than a small blast template. I've had some rather bad experiences with Rhinos tank-shocking 6" onto a blob, forcing everyone over and even more tightly packed, the tactical squad gets out, flamer up front, and it's 15 hits, dead on 3+.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

The question to ask is not: 'what can a Grenade Launcher can do?' The question to ask is: 'what's the best thing to spend my points on: a grenade launcher, or something else?'

Grenade Launchers stink, pure and simple. They S-T-I-N-K. Plasma guns are so much better in every way, man, it's loco.

I've had a mechanized infantry army for a decade now with half a dozen of those lovely Steel Legion Grenade Launchers, and the Grenade Launcher has stunk up the joint for a decade. They just can't hurt anything that doesn't have low toughness and bad armor. And guess what every other gun in the Guard army can do? Kill stuff with with low toughness and bad armor!

Grenade Launchers do nothing except for steal points and fill up weapon slots that could have been used for (fill in anything else). No, silly, not sniper rifles. But anything else will do. Seriously. I recommend giving your line squads Plasma guns, with a few flamers tossed in here and there. But no Grenade Launchers.

And don't do drugs, either.

(Thought I'd slip that in there while I was dispensing advice.)

Saber wrote:I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

The question to ask is not: 'what can a Grenade Launcher can do?' The question to ask is: 'what's the best thing to spend my points on: a grenade launcher, or something else?'

Grenade Launchers stink, pure and simple. They S-T-I-N-K. Plasma guns are so much better in every way, man, it's loco.

I've had a mechanized infantry army for a decade now with half a dozen of those lovely Steel Legion Grenade Launchers, and the Grenade Launcher has stunk up the joint for a decade. They just can't hurt anything that doesn't have low toughness and bad armor. And guess what every other gun in the Guard army can do? Kill stuff with with low toughness and bad armor!

Grenade Launchers do nothing except for steal points and fill up weapon slots that could have been used for (fill in anything else). No, silly, not sniper rifles. But anything else will do. Seriously. I recommend giving your line squads Plasma guns, with a few flamers tossed in here and there. But no Grenade Launchers.

And don't do drugs, either.

(Thought I'd slip that in there while I was dispensing advice.)

for a mechanised army I would agree..they are not fit for that...

for line squads they work well together with lasgun fire in frag mode, and also to support bashing light vehicles (and jetseers). I had used plasma guns exclusively in 4th ed when they were 10 pts each, but now use the GL in line squads..they have worked fine so far, as I do not epxect anything spectacular from them, so when they do get to do something great hey fantastic....

freddieyu1 wrote:

for a mechanised army I would agree..they are not fit for that...

for line squads they work well together with lasgun fire in frag mode, and also to support bashing light vehicles (and jetseers). I had used plasma guns exclusively in 4th ed when they were 10 pts each, but now use the GL in line squads..they have worked fine so far, as I do not epxect anything spectacular from them, so when they do get to do something great hey fantastic....

Thats how I feel as well now. GL are good for footsloggers because when you're standing still they match the range and intended targets of Lasguns very well but can be used against light armor if you absolutely need to. Considering there is a 10 point difference between Plasma and GL, if you have 3 squads that difference is a Sentinel. If you have 6 thats a Chimera extra.

Plasma is nice but with the expensive price, chance to kill yourself and shorter range if you're footslogging, its not a no-brainer choice. The GL is an equivalent weapon considering the cheaper price.

Hmm, speaking as a Marine player I can vouch that although GL's are not particularly scary, they can be surprisingly effective by forcing you to repeatedly make multiple armour saves through frag templates. 3+ saves only works 66% of the time after all

Something else then

The GL's saving grace is its cost and being an assault weapon, so I don't see what makes them useful in a static unit and useless in a mobile unit. For a measly X points you have just doubled your Chimera's firepower on the move between 0 - 24", as you cannot fire the HB and so many use a hull HF anyways.

Of course it isn't amazing in terms of killiness but I stand by what I said - if you've covered your other needs, then this is a nice little harassment unit that can evade and attempt to capture objectives late game.

Lord Solar Plexus wrote:The GL's saving grace is its cost and being an assault weapon, so I don't see what makes them useful in a static unit and useless in a mobile unit. For a measly X points you have just doubled your Chimera's firepower on the move between 0 - 24", as you cannot fire the HB and so many use a hull HF anyways.

Of course it isn't amazing in terms of killiness but I stand by what I said - if you've covered your other needs, then this is a nice little harassment unit that can evade and attempt to capture objectives late game.

True true, although I'd feel putting them in a chimera would be a waste - the assault means they can move and fire at full range, and being mounted in a chimera doing 6" or less does the same for rapid fire weaponry. Although certainly the lower threat level of the GL's would keep that chimera mobile a bit longer for your aforementioned objective-grabbing.

Captain Roderick wrote:

Lord Solar Plexus wrote:The GL's saving grace is its cost and being an assault weapon, so I don't see what makes them useful in a static unit and useless in a mobile unit. For a measly X points you have just doubled your Chimera's firepower on the move between 0 - 24", as you cannot fire the HB and so many use a hull HF anyways.

Of course it isn't amazing in terms of killiness but I stand by what I said - if you've covered your other needs, then this is a nice little harassment unit that can evade and attempt to capture objectives late game.

True true, although I'd feel putting them in a chimera would be a waste - the assault means they can move and fire at full range, and being mounted in a chimera doing 6" or less does the same for rapid fire weaponry. Although certainly the lower threat level of the GL's would keep that chimera mobile a bit longer for your aforementioned objective-grabbing.

I find chimeras to be a great place to keep grenade launchers. You have to remember that if the chimera moves even a small fraction of an inch, any rapid fire weapons will be limited to 12" range, and heavy weapons will not be able to shoot at all, while grenade launchers will be able to fire up to their full range if the chimera moves up to 6".

willydstyle wrote:
I find chimeras to be a great place to keep grenade launchers. You have to remember that if the chimera moves even a small fraction of an inch, any rapid fire weapons will be limited to 12" range, and heavy weapons will not be able to shoot at all, while grenade launchers will be able to fire up to their full range if the chimera moves up to 6".

*checks rulebook* dang! you're totally right. I thought models in a vehicle counted as stationary if it moves less than 6". Still stuck in 3rd ed thinking, and that totally changes how I'm going to use chimeras in future. Thanks for that...

I wonder if running SWS with GL is a useful way to get mobile shooting for a infantry based list. It just seems to fit to me in a list without a lot of skimishing mech units to serve as mobile firepower.

Depends on how soon you reckon you'll get swamped I suppose. If you're going to be assaulted, better to use those 0-2 SWS for the traditional 2 flamer/1 demo close-range firepower. If you're likely to get plenty of shots off, certainly the more blasts the better, and it's the same cost as an unequpped infantry squad...