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Firing an Ordanance Barrage weapon does not really need the firer to aim. that is why they do not allow BS to adjust and do not require LOS to fire. maybe that explain why they say the shot came from the center of the marker.

easy answer... Codex Rule > Brb rule

TopC wrote:easy answer... Codex Rule > Brb rule

Actually, that is wrong.

and here comes gwar being all high and mighty, even though my answer agrees with his in a round about way. G troll much? say something useful next time.

Dpod has its own rule, it over rides the barrage weapon rule. Why? because the codex is a list of rules for that specific race. duh? sheeesh gwar you pride yourself on anything regarding a rule, you even write FAQs for races codex that break BRB rules...yet you disagree? yup your trolling

Actually, he's not. He's being pedantic, certainly, but not exactly trolling.

The simple fact is that the Codex>Rulebook relationship that gets touted around is not strictly accurate.

It's more a case that the more specific rule over-rides the general. In most cases, that does indeed mean that the codex over-rides the rulebook where there is a conflict. But it's because of the way the rules mechanics interact, not due to a blanket 'Codex Wins' clause.

I understand this IE: certain things incur a cover save instead of an invuln save now.. due to BRB update.

But in a general speaking Codex>BRB.

In this situation Codex > BRB = this is the one that applies to this situation, thus the answer.


Why do so many people ont his site try to f w/ people?

TopC wrote:In this situation Codex > BRB = this is the one that applies to this situation, thus the answer.

The problem is that it isn't an answer.

The interaction between the two rules is exactly what is being discussed here. Just pointing out that one over-rides the other doesn't actually address the issue. It simply adds an opinion without any attached reasoning as to why that opinion is held.

Not trying to be rude, here. Just trying to explain why your answer wasn't perhaps received as you would have expected.

Because Gwar stated the answer already...



weapon discharged at a range greater than 12'' away = cover save regardless (it cares nothing about how the round detonates)


Whoever said something about barrage weapons hitting the armor facing they land on I'd like to reference you..


page 60: right side, 'template and blast weapons against vehicles' 3rd paragraph down... barrage weapons always hit side armor..

I must say that I do not own and am not reading a Tau codex at this moment.

I think this is only something that will boil down into an opinion. The shot counts as coming from the center of the hole for gaining cover. Honestly (and off topic) ou can put the template way abover the table and say that it can see almost anything unless its under a roof of some kind.

Anyways, the shot counts as coming from the center of the hole, and if the hole is within 12", then the shot counts as coming from within 12" of the target. Yeah, I may be quoting the wording of the rules but for determining cover/obscurity (because they're the same thing and if they are not, then being "obscured" is meaningless) the shot counts as coming from within the bubble.

Nenya97 wrote:I must say that I do not own and am not reading a Tau codex at this moment.

I think this is only something that will boil down into an opinion. The shot counts as coming from the center of the hole for gaining cover. Honestly (and off topic) ou can put the template way abover the table and say that it can see almost anything unless its under a roof of some kind.

Anyways, the shot counts as coming from the center of the hole, and if the hole is within 12", then the shot counts as coming from within 12" of the target. Yeah, I may be quoting the wording of the rules but for determining cover/obscurity (because they're the same thing and if they are not, then being "obscured" is meaningless) the shot counts as coming from within the bubble.

Normal forms of cover are not able to be taken due to how the no cover weapon works.

Disruption pods have a rule of their own that states if the firer is greater than 12'' away they get cover..

It is an exception to the BRB in this case

IMO, this is a reference that gaining cover usually comes from the eyesight of the firer. This is not true with barrage as the cover is determined from the center blast.

RAW: It gets the cover save because there is no arguing that the "firer" is more than a foot away. They get it through generalization, which some would argue should take it away but because it is specific in its wording, you can not argue logically.

RAI: I think they just forgot to mention how barrage works against it, it seems that they should have mentioned how it works with barrage either way, whether it gets cover or not.

Nenya97 wrote:IMO, this is a reference that gaining cover usually comes from the eyesight of the firer. This is not true with barrage as the cover is determined from the center blast.

RAW: It gets the cover save because there is no arguing that the "firer" is more than a foot away. They get it through generalization, which some would argue should take it away but because it is specific in its wording, you can not argue logically.

RAI: I think they just forgot to mention how barrage works against it, it seems that they should have mentioned how it works with barrage either way, whether it gets cover or not.

Tau codex pg 30: Disruption Pod - "weapons firing at the vheicle from more than 12'' distant count the vehicle as an Obscured Target"

This has nothing to do with terrain/Los/Position, it is a purchased piece of war gear causing an effect under said circumstances.

So, RAW give them a cover save yet again.

It just does not sit right with me knowing that barrage counts as coming from the center hole for cover/obscurity but because your wargear says that since I fired it from way the hell over there, you obscure their sight, even though they do not need to see you, and grant you a cover save.

This is just yet another thing GW should address in an FAQ, I wonder what the list is for what they should add.

Nenya97 wrote:So, RAW give them a cover save yet again.

It just does not sit right with me knowing that barrage counts as coming from the center hole for cover/obscurity but because your wargear says that since I fired it from way the hell over there, you obscure their sight, even though they do not need to see you, and grant you a cover save.

This is just yet another thing GW should address in an FAQ, I wonder what the list is for what they should add.

No kidding... I think they should have a single team sit down and rewrite every codex at the same time per given edition of the BRB.. after that said team should post any FAQs etc in due time..but it should be for all races at the same time... then no new codex until new edition..but that would be to easy..and make things to straight forward

TopC wrote:No kidding... I think they should have a single team sit down and rewrite every codex at the same time per given edition of the BRB.. after that said team should post any FAQs etc in due time..but it should be for all races at the same time... then no new codex until new edition..but that would be to easy..and make things to straight forward

And the funny thing is, I would do it for free. But alas, GW had gone from Gamers who know nothing of Business to Businessmen who know nothing of Business.

Gwar! wrote:

TopC wrote:No kidding... I think they should have a single team sit down and rewrite every codex at the same time per given edition of the BRB.. after that said team should post any FAQs etc in due time..but it should be for all races at the same time... then no new codex until new edition..but that would be to easy..and make things to straight forward

And the funny thing is, I would do it for free. But alas, GW had gone from Gamers who know nothing of Business to Businessmen who know nothing of Business.

I'd help you play test it and point out all the slightly contradictory wordings i came across so you could rewrite them into a iron clad version to limit mistakes

Gwar! wrote:

TopC wrote:No kidding... I think they should have a single team sit down and rewrite every codex at the same time per given edition of the BRB.. after that said team should post any FAQs etc in due time..but it should be for all races at the same time... then no new codex until new edition..but that would be to easy..and make things to straight forward

And the funny thing is, I would do it for free. But alas, GW had gone from Gamers who know nothing of Business to Businessmen who know nothing of Business.

you do that, just like stalek will. i'm seeing an odd familiarity with you two.

as for the PG. 32 rules, that is only barrage, not ordnance barrage.

like i said before, obscured target resolves in a cover save if your more then 12" away yes. but Ordnance barrage specifically says that cover saves are taken from the center of the marker. you would have gotten a cover save had the template in your hand not been the actual place to measure from.

ordnance barrage weapons do not grant cover from the gun, they grant cover from the center of the marker. this over rides any and all rules about cover from the observer, and distance there of.

i'd also like to say that all the others that stepped in never actually quoted a rule...

wash-away wrote:as for the PG. 32 rules, that is only barrage, not ordnance barrage.

Errm... whut? And what do the Ordnance Barrage rules refer back to? The rules on how to make a Strawberry pudding?

Gwar! wrote:

wash-away wrote:as for the PG. 32 rules, that is only barrage, not ordnance barrage.

Errm... whut? And what do the Ordnance Barrage rules refer back to? The rules on how to make a Strawberry pudding?

certainly not the rules to being an asshat,

ordnance barrage is a modification of barrage, so you don't count 'wounds' you count location of the template for 'units'

I'm of the opinion that it ought to be worked out from the centre(heh) of the blast marker for barrages (since everything else is).

Otherwise how would you rule on barrage shots which have no model to measure from, such as the inquisitorial Orbital Strike or the Planetstrike Firestorm. For consistency I think these need to work the same as the other barrages, but one can hardly argue the the model firing is further then 12 inches away in these cases...

Jack

Thread closed as users persist in throwing insults around despite the previous warning. Furtehr actiosn to follow.