How to beat leafblower/super-mech IG?

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**Nivoglibina**

Agree again, taking units that don't work well often enough is not a good idea.

But what I disagree with is finding that unit/gun that is clearly better all the time. Sure there are plenty of examples of non-competitive units, and units that have a better variant in that same army. But more often there are examples where several units/guns have merit in their FoC slot. In your own example, there is no clear winner in the heavy support section of Eldar!

In the recent past, 2 army lists from regular Dakkaites that won serious tournaments have been discussed (and critised). One was a mixed foot/mech Eldar list with all kinds of units, the other a Space Marine army with as many different tools (within boundaries) as possible. Both were quite the opposite of spam. I respect those choices, and I think most do.
I have yet to read a report of a tournament winning list that is truly spamming the same thing. (Not that I doubt that that's possible: Infact, whenever I see a list made in Stelek style I think "how the hell am I going to win from that army".

I'm not disagreeing with anything you said, I just want to point out that more often than not, there is no clear winner in a FoC slot or gun type, and when you do spam a unit, you have to make sure that the rest of your list can compensate for a possible weakness this leaves you vs some opponents.

**DevianID**

Trying to help with the OP, I think focusing on 'leafblower' is wrong. "Leafblower" won mostly due to luck--luck to get good matchups, luck to go first each time, luck that the opponent didnt play a ninja game.

Instead, consider the archtypes you need to deal with--mech, alpha strike, horde/blob, ninja, crazy psychic powers, deathstars, ect. If you develop a list that can deal with the archtypes you deem to be the most prolific, and you have a plan to deal with other archtypes, you will be fine.

**Reecius**

Sourclams hit the nail on the head. Redundancy is just smart play in competitive gaming, although you must obviously take the best thing for that slot, not just the same of everything.

@Greenie
I agree buddy, the hard core spam lists, like most of Steleks, work better on paper than in reality as they do usually have a weakness and that weakness, once discovered, totally undermines the list.

What I mean by spamming is not spamming a weapon type or something similar, but determining what is the best unit in a given slot for your army and taking the maximum amount of them.

For example, my Eldar have three identically equipped Wraithlords because they are the best heavy choice for my overall army. Taking two and a unit of weapons batteries just to not "spam" would make my army hugely weaker and less fun to play.

**number9dream**

Green Blow Fly wrote:An army that completely relies upon going first is not a good army and the chances are less than 50 percent.

G

... How can you possibly have a less than 50% chance of going first -.-?

50/50 on the roll, if you fail you try to seize, if he fails he tries to seize.

Are you just accounting for the fact that some armies have modifiers for going first (Bjorn, Emperors Tarot)?

**Lukus83**

No when you dice off the odds are 50%, but if you win the dice off the opponent then has the chance to steal, thus taking your percentage down.

**Flavius Infernus**

Lukus83 wrote:No when you dice off the odds are 50%, but if you win the dice off the opponent then has the chance to steal, thus taking your percentage down.

I think having the same percent chance to steal when your opponent is going first takes your percentage back to 50%.

**Saldiven**

Actually, from an effective game-play mechanic, it might as well be slightly less than 50% to win the first turn.

If a player wins the first turn, and they're running an alpha strike type list, that player will set up their army such that it can bring maximum offensive output upon the opponent, with only limited thoughts towards defense.

That same player, if they are set to go second, will set up their army more defensively, perhaps even placing a good amount of it in reserve or "special reserve" in a Dawn of War deployment. If that player then seizes the initiative, they're not then in position to make maximum use of their alpha strike.

So, consequently, an alpha strike list is only able to have its maximum effectiveness in slightly less than 50% of games.

**Snikkyd**

Culler wrote:
Snikkyd wrote:
Culler wrote:Any list with lots of autocannon profile shots should do fairly well such as an Ork army with 3 units of lootas. Each loota squad is almost certainly going to at least silence an AV 12 gun platform, and stands a fair shake at killing it or putting it out of commission for the rest of the game. If the IG player focuses on the lootas and not the rest of the army rushing at them, they will lose. Who gets first turn is still a factor, but it doesn't look good for the leafblower.

I think I had a pretty good chance of taking out the leafblower list that won 'ard boyz, especially if I went first and seeing as how I had already massacred 2 IG mech lists earlier in the tournament, but I got paired with different opponents.

You massacred 2 IG with Orks? Awesome.

What did you use? 45 Lootas i suppose?

28 lootas in 2 squads certainly helped but weren't really the factor that put me over the top. My two nasty assault units were what did it in for IG: 30 slugga boyz with cybork bodies + grotsnik and a nob biker squad with attached warboss. The nob bikers pretty much always get killed and that's OK because while they're being a target (and taking out a few tanks) Grotsnik's squad starts eating through the IG lines in hilarious fashion. 2 mobs of 30 shootas swept in behind to add insult to injury while another mob of 20 held objectives.

One game had the nobs charge in and take out a couple demolishers and a blobbed infantry squad before dying, while Grotsnik's squad aimed like an arrow into the heart of the spearhead deployment and began eating everything it touched. His mechanized elements never had anywhere to go that wasn't already occupied by Ork bodies and the one thing that almost did got shot to pieces by lootas, giving me mastery of the board and control of the objectives.
The other game saw the nobs going around wide on another spearhead, skirting around a hill and smashing into the side of the IG formation and taking almost no casualties while Grotsnik's mob charged into the russes and the front wave of chimeras, wrecking shop and laughing off hellhound and heavy flamer shots with their 5+ invuln and 4+ FNP. Lost most of the mob what with the entire army focusing on them but they did their damage. The shoota boyz did more in this game since it was king of the hill by providing a second wave of good assaulters. The lootas took more of an anti-armor role, silencing hydras and opening up chimeras so the boyz could get at the juicy contents.

hmm Grotsnik with a Horde list. Sounds dead'ard. That unit is ridiculously tough. Sounds cool.

**Ludovic**

sourclams wrote:You get 1/3 your vehicles on 2nd turn and can't shoot, and Hydras smoke you.

FTFY

**Iron_Chaos_Brute**

1st, necro.

2nd, wrong. OoTF. Nice try, though.