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Weasel, it's about half-way down the page, here:

sickening wrote:updated list!
did a quick swap on the kommandos for lootas then dropped 1 koppta to add buzzsaws.

HQ: Big Mek 90 pts
Kustom Force Field; 'Eavy Armour

HQ: Warboss 150 pts
Power Klaw; Attack Squig; Cybork Body; Warbike

Elite: Nobz 520 pts
7 Nobz Big Choppa x2; Choppa x3; Power Klaw x2; Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon x2;Bosspole x1; Cybork Body; Waaagh! Banner x1; Warbike 1 Painboy

Troops: Boyz 154 pts
18 Boyz
Boyz Nob Power Klaw; Bosspole

Troops: Boyz 160 pts
19 Boyz
Boyz Nob Power Klaw; Bosspole

Troops: Boyz 160 pts
19 Boyz
Boyz Nob Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole

Troops: Boyz 162 pts
11 Boyz
Boyz Nob Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole
Trukk Boarding Plank; Red Paint Job; Reinforced Ram

Troops: Boyz 162 pts
11 Boyz
Boyz Nob Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole
Trukk Boarding Plank; Red Paint Job; Reinforced Ram

Troops: Boyz 162 pts
11 Boyz
Boyz Nob Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole
Trukk Boarding Plank; Red Paint Job; Reinforced Ram

Heavy Support: Battlewagon 125 pts
Battlewagon Big Shoota x1; Boarding Plank; Deff Rolla; Red Paint Job

Heavy Support: Battlewagon 110 pts
Battlewagon Big Shoota x1; Boarding Plank; Red Paint Job; Reinforced Ram

Heavy Support: Battlewagon 110 pts
Battlewagon Big Shoota x1; Boarding Plank; Red Paint Job; Reinforced Ram

Elite: Lootas x 15 225 pts

Fast Attack: Deffkoptas 70 pts
1 Deffkoptas Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha Buzzsaw

Fast Attack: Deffkoptas 70 pts
1 Deffkoptas Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha Buzzsaw

Fast Attack: Deffkoptas 70 pts
1 Deffkoptas Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha Buzzsaw

Speaking from a long experience with an Ork BW/Speed Freak List:

Lootas are the most important part of this army. Whats been said before is true, you can't rely on Boarding Planks to take out anything. Your Warboss and your Nobs should really only use the planks if there is no other option (Lootas can't see) or if you're going against a LR. Otherwise you need Lootas to take care of AV 11 and 12.

Take 2 squads of 15. They are vulnerable to outflank/deepstrike, but if you have two of them they can cover each other and people rarely dedicate enough deepstrike to handle two full units of them in cover. Thats not to say they aren't somewhat fragile, but they have standard ork beefiness and numbers.

A way I use to protect them is to keep two units of trukk boyz (I do shoota boyz) with PKs in reserve. I use this tactic is tournaments and leagues and its pretty successful. The two trukks keep the lootas protected by providing a deterrent for units that can get behind you quick. 12 shoota boyz with a PK nob can handle a lot of units effectively. they're also good for jumping on home objectives so you can dedicate the rest of the force to charging forwards.

I prefer rokkit buggies, but thats a whole other debate...

so would i be better off with 2 units of lootas or 3 koptas units with buzzsaws and 1 unit of lootas?

I think 3x10 squads of lootas can get you by or 2x15.

I have no idea what to change in your list. Obviously getting one squad of truk boys is in order.

imweasel wrote:
All the pk's hit on 6's. The truks will most likely not survive to get to where they need to go. That gives you the 3 pk's in the battlewagons with the rest coming across on foot. I don't see you actually destroying very many rhinos or chimeras with those units. The nob bikers are very effective vs a couple of 35-55pt vehicles, but considering their point cost they should be. And one pbs unit will ruin that very expensive nob biker units day. Period. Like I said, the battlewagons are his most effective unit. There is nothing wrong with them.

You are right, all the PK's will hit on 6's when the enemy vehicles are moving 12". If they are moving 12", then they will not be shooting anything at you, right. I think that means your Trukks survive, right? I think you are right, the PBS will send the Nob Bikers running. But of course that means the PBS Chimera is moving only 6" and is now getting hit with the PK's on 4+. In either case, the PK's are doing their job against IG. Now what about a list that doesn't have a PBS? Does that mean they wreck more vehicles? Anytime the SW Razorbacks are moving more than 6", the PK's will hit them on 6's, but they can't shoot. Slow down to shoot, then the PK's wreck you.

One Loota unit is fine, any more and the list has to change from a mobile Ork army to something else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sickening wrote:so would i be better off with 2 units of lootas or 3 koptas units with buzzsaws and 1 unit of lootas?

3 Koptas w/ Buzzsaw. If you go first, you can scout them up to pop those tanks that will always be moving 12".

lol i got a chance to play test last night but..... it was a nid swarm list. the lootas really did nothing for me that game (but i got some very bad rolls). this was the first time i ever played against a new nid swarm list so i think i was more of how i played then my build that made that game so south fast.

one thing i find is my wagons really do nothing after i drop off my boyz so i am thinking about adding a kannon to each one.

sickening wrote:lol i got a chance to play test last night but..... it was a nid swarm list. the lootas really did nothing for me that game (but i got some very bad rolls). this was the first time i ever played against a new nid swarm list so i think i was more of how i played then my build that made that game so south fast.

one thing i find is my wagons really do nothing after i drop off my boyz so i am thinking about adding a kannon to each one.

Why are you "dropping off your boyz" against anyone, especially nids?

Stay in the vehicle and shoot them to a pulp.* Don't get into an assault with nids.

* You're of course using shoota boyz since they are superior to slugga boyz.

im still not sure why a mech list would run lootas. the concept of it seems weird, design an army to charge the opponent and then have a squad sit back? counter productive imo. it also depends what kind of terrain people play with too, if the terrain is small and LOS isnt an issue than lootas can essentially be added to any ork army, but when you have a lot of vehicles running the feild and terrain thats blocking LOS, then youre in trouble for finding a decent target

Kevin Nash wrote:
Why are you "dropping off your boyz" against anyone, especially nids?

Stay in the vehicle and shoot them to a pulp.* Don't get into an assault with nids.

* You're of course using shoota boyz since they are superior to slugga boyz.

lol because its a mech assault build.

sickening wrote:

Kevin Nash wrote:
Why are you "dropping off your boyz" against anyone, especially nids?

Stay in the vehicle and shoot them to a pulp.* Don't get into an assault with nids.

* You're of course using shoota boyz since they are superior to slugga boyz.

lol because its a mech assault build.

So this is synonymous with losing?

Orks execel at combat, the basic ork boy loves nothing then pumlping heads and their stats show this. If a good number of ork boys shoot then follow that up with an assault most things fall usunder. If you hit them first then they lose the advantage of the charge. If you can keep up your momentum then there is no reason not to. There are cases were staying in your trukk is a good idea, but since they are so vulnerable it is likely that the nids will simply destroy the trukk, then assault you.

Kevin Nash wrote:
So this is synonymous with losing?

LOL yeah..... i find that i will get more wounds out of the extra attack during assault then i do with a full round of shoota shots. sure there are times when not getting out of the battlewagon and shooting is a much better idea but 99% of the time i would much rather have then in CC.

despoiler52 wrote:Orks execel at combat, the basic ork boy loves nothing then pumlping heads and their stats show this.

Gaunts have a higher initiative than orks. While Orks have nice strength and toughness numbers, a typical gaunts unit gets 20-30 swings before the orks even get to attack. A unit of 20 boyz gets a lot of attacks but by the time they swing in cc almost half the unit is dead.

If a good number of ork boys shoot then follow that up with an assault most things fall usunder. If you hit them first then they lose the advantage of the charge. If you can keep up your momentum then there is no reason not to. There are cases were staying in your trukk is a good idea, but since they are so vulnerable it is likely that the nids will simply destroy the trukk, then assault you.

The example cited was a battlewagon which is significantly more difficult to kill. Why leave the safe confines of a vehicle when you can just shoot from the weapons platform uncontested?

Once the wagon blows up? Sure obviously you assault. But not before.

i find that i will get more wounds out of the extra attack during assault then i do with a full round of shoota shots

You will but at the expense of half your troop unit. Shoot from the safety of the vehicle until they kill it and THEN assault the gaunts.

"Once the wagon blows up? Sure obviously you assault. But not before. " The problem with this is when your transport is blown up you are charged in the same turn. There is no chance for you to charge. What is the initiative of a gaunt? Either way the added attack and them not getting one will be a boon to your cause.

with rear armor of 10 on open topped vehicles the chance of getting a crew shaken result from 20-30 attacks a typical gaunts unit gets will stop you from shooting and will fore you to attack. lol and the 18 inch range of a shoota dose not leave very much room for error to keep you out of assault range.

sickening wrote:with rear armor of 10 on open topped vehicles the chance of getting a crew shaken result from 20-30 attacks a typical gaunts unit gets will stop you from shooting and will fore you to attack. lol and the 18 inch range of a shoota dose not leave very much room for error to keep you out of assault range.

If you have no other choice then sure. But "dropping off your boyz" into a unit of nids when you aren't forced to is a bad play.

well i really see what you are saying and the nids! but i am going for a more well rounded list and only have 2 painted shootas.

they are worth some play testing.

so if i was to play test some shootas should i make all the boyz into shoota or just the ones the in battlewagon? i would think its a good idea to keep the trukk boyz as they are because there low #s could benefit from the extra CC attack.

sickening wrote:so if i was to play test some shootas should i make all the boyz into shoota or just the ones the in battlewagon? i would think its a good idea to keep the trukk boyz as they are because there low #s could benefit from the extra CC attack.

This would be a good place to start. Just put shootas in the battlewagons and leave the choppas in the truks.

lol i should add a kannon to each battlewagon if i am planing on shooting from them.

sickening wrote:lol i should add a kannon to each battlewagon if i am planing on shooting from them.

No.

why its only 10 points and will add some small blasts or S8 attacks?

another update. added deff rollas to each battlewagon.
should i keep the boarding planks along with the deff rollas?

HQ: Big Mek 90 pts
Kustom Force Field; 'Eavy Armour

HQ: Warboss 150 pts
Power Klaw; Attack Squig; Cybork Body; Warbike

Elite: Nobz 520 pts
7 Nobz Big Choppa x2; Choppa x3; Power Klaw x2; Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon x2;Bosspole x1; Cybork Body; Waaagh! Banner x1; Warbike 1 Painboy

Troops: Boyz 154 pts
18 Boyz
Boyz Nob Power Klaw; Bosspole

Troops: Boyz 160 pts
19 Boyz
Boyz Nob Power Klaw; Bosspole

Troops: Boyz 160 pts
19 Boyz
Boyz Nob Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole

Troops: Boyz 162 pts
11 Boyz
Boyz Nob Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole
Trukk Boarding Plank; Red Paint Job; Reinforced Ram

Troops: Boyz 162 pts
11 Boyz
Boyz Nob Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole
Trukk Boarding Plank; Red Paint Job; Reinforced Ram

Troops: Boyz 162 pts
11 Boyz
Boyz Nob Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole
Trukk Boarding Plank; Red Paint Job; Reinforced Ram

Heavy Support: Battlewagon 125 pts
Battlewagon Big Shoota x1; Boarding Plank; Deff Rolla; Red Paint Job

Heavy Support: Battlewagon 125 pts
Battlewagon Big Shoota x1; Boarding Plank; Deff Rolla; Red Paint Job

Heavy Support: Battlewagon 125 pts
Battlewagon Big Shoota x1; Boarding Plank; Deff Rolla; Red Paint Job

Elite: Lootas x 13 195 pts

Fast Attack: Deffkoptas 70 pts
1 Deffkoptas Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha Buzzsaw

Fast Attack: Deffkoptas 70 pts
1 Deffkoptas Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha Buzzsaw

Fast Attack: Deffkoptas 70 pts
1 Deffkoptas Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha Buzzsaw

I feel like the nob unit is horribly overpriced and inefficient. Why does no one use mega nobs? I realize you can allocate wounds and such to all 7 guys, but you can take a full 10 mega nobs and still have 120 points left over. You can also allocate wounds to 2 guys (a kombi of each type). The only unit that the mega nobz do marginally worse against are units with multiple ID / ignore armor attacks (really, just bloodcrushers). The 2+ is better than 4+ with FNP and against power weapons the 5+ is marginally better when you realize the mega nobs have 30 power klaw attacks versus 6.


I also think you should use your points to get ghazskull, since an auto 6 waaagh is insanely good and his 7 str 10 attacks on the charge are no joke.

i have thought about running mega nobz. but the bikers are just so mobile and get 3 TL shots each then the +4 armor or cover with the FNP i will get some time of a save no matter what. ghazskull is a beast but i still get 6 S10 attacks from the warboss. lol just no auto 6 on a waaagh.

sickening wrote:i have thought about running mega nobz. but the bikers are just so mobile and get 3 TL shots each then the +4 armor or cover with the FNP i will get some time of a save no matter what. ghazskull is a beast but i still get 6 S10 attacks from the warboss. lol just no auto 6 on a waaagh.

IG fubar nob bikers.

Space wolves have a good shot at messing them up badly.

Those will be two popular armies at 'ard boyz this year.

my bikes have only been killed off once. lol by buddys Tau army shot every thing they had at them the entire game.

i would like to try some mega nobs but 15 bucks each lol i wont have a full set any time soon.

bikers have done me very very so far so i am not in a big hurry to drop them.

sickening wrote:my bikes have only been killed off once. lol by buddys Tau army shot every thing they had at them the entire game.

i would like to try some mega nobs but 15 bucks each lol i wont have a full set any time soon.

bikers have done me very very so far so i am not in a big hurry to drop them.

You lose 2 models in that nob biker unit (7+warboss right?), which is easily accomplished by IG at 2500pts, he zaps you with weaken resolve and BAM! You fail your leadership test.

You fall back 3d6", get to regroup next turn and move a whole 3". It will happen again next turn and if he kills 3 or you roll badly on your fall back roll, you are either off table or are below half strength and that nice big expensive unit is dead.

This is 2500pts folks, play and build your army lists like it is.

7 nobz 1 painboy and a warboss so 9 all together. ok so i have to take a LD test with a warboss of LD 9 and a chance to reroll with my boss poll.

my main goal is to do a multi assault so they are locked in following tun so they cant be shot at and fished the combat in the other plays turn and do it all over again.

so are you against the the bikers or just a expensive unit?

I don't think 12 Shootas will be all that much better.

Shootas are better in large units, so use them in the wagon. In trukks, it doesn't matter much.

I like the bikers but you may consider dropping them. More lootas would be good, or maybe get some burnas or tankbustas in one of those wagons.