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There have been a few FLGS close down in the Pacific NW as well. Most notably Z-Games which was pretty big in Portland/Vancouver Washington. Realistically, there were just too many stores.

hands_miranda wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:
Just an aside......you know when you shop from the Warstore etc, you not only hurt GW stores, but also the FLGS you shop out. Most brick and mortar stores can't discount, and have higher operating costs then online stores. I'm not just talking GW but all games.

I honestly think that the LGS is something that's outlived its usefulness. It's an exceedingly inefficient way to pay for space to play at (Why attach the cost to play to the figure you buy versus paying for it directly?) and has the inefficiency of someone skimming profit off to try to live on. A club collecting due and renting space is usually a better choice, due to the removal of these two costs.

The club I'm a member of in Western MD is pretty reasonably priced compared to playing in a shop ($10 a month) and we're 100% independent of any hobby business. This makes huge sense if you are either a player who buys large amounts of stuff (and thus can do much better going with either the second hand or internet markets) or if you don't buy much at all (because it gives you a place to play with your old/alt figure armies) and lets you opt out of all the small town business stupidity that happens in a lot of places. I have a pretty big collection of figures, so I don't have to feel bad about not paying rent to the place I play anymore. If most shop owners would take $5-10 to play at their shop, and layed off airing disgusting views in public, I'd be a lot more willing to deal with LGSs again. Since I don't see that happening, I figure being the member of a club is a much better setup.

Ray

Last I looked, the reason for a FLGS to exist wasn't so that people who buy on the internet have a convenient place to pay for gaming space. Your judgement of them based on that is a bit flawed.

I look at it differently: I'll provide my customers a nice place to come and play games for free, including tables, scenery, painting classes and events. I do this because they support the store.

For the people that don't shop with me, but want to use my space? Well, I'd say you've outlived your usefullness to me.)

I agree with Mikhalia on this a FLGS is a social place, though yes you may not get your discount as you do on the internet you are going there to meet people with like interests and maybe make some long standing friendships. Hell I met some of my closest friends who have helped me in the worst days of my life at the Matrix, and Tabletop games(former) in the tacoma region, and that was almost 9 years ago, and they are still close friends. A gamings tore is a business like anything else, and lets be honest most of them will never get rich off of it they do it because they love it.

Basing your judgement on what you've heard from the internet....well.......we all know everything on the internet is true.

General Hobbs wrote:

Basing your judgement on what you've heard from the internet....well.......we all know everything on the internet is true.

Can you be more specific on this?

General Hobbs wrote:

The LGS serves a vital need....recruitment. Without stores out there getting people to play games, join in a gaming community, then gaming itself will wither and die. There needs to be a place for people to be introduced to gaming.

You make it sound as if it is a sin making money. Most people open game stores up because they love gaming, and want there to be a place for people to game. They usually sell at MSRP, or a small discount if they can afford to. How it that skimming off profit? What do you do for living? Maybe you should go to your boss and say, I need X for housing, Y for food, and Z for these essential living expenses, so whatever else I'm making is profit, you should cut my salary.

What game club do you play in? I've only heard of one in Western Maryland....

I don't mind people making a profit off stuff, but I don't see why I should be paying for a place to play via buying overpriced models. I'd much rather just directly pay the shopowner for it vs. see it marked up on each and every p[roduct I buy. Then I'd be able to gauge if the cost is worth it or not. I've found a club works way better because it's a bunch of guys you know and nobody is trying to make a living off of it, so it only needs to be break even. I don't see why this is contraversial for experienced gamers in an established area.

I'm also pretty hard on LGSs because as a small town player I've often run into the entitlement syndrome, i.e. I'm the only game in town so I am entitled to all gaming dollars for the area. Screw that, doubly so when the owner has a bunch of disgusting views that they decide to push every time you're in the shop. I'd rather play at a buddy's house or a clubhouse than give money to people like that.

My club is Mid-Atlantic Gamers-- we're a bit smaller than most and I don't think we've ever had more than a handfull of active tournament players. I think we're the only alt (as possed to historical) gaming club that operates outside a store in the region.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mikhaila wrote:

Last I looked, the reason for a FLGS to exist wasn't so that people who buy on the internet have a convenient place to pay for gaming space. Your judgement of them based on that is a bit flawed.

I look at it differently: I'll provide my customers a nice place to come and play games for free, including tables, scenery, painting classes and events. I do this because they support the store.

For the people that don't shop with me, but want to use my space? Well, I'd say you've outlived your usefullness to me.)

Again, why not allow people to pay you to play in your space, independant of buying overpriced models? That's something I've never been able to get an answer to from a shopkeeper. Really, it's breaking a package deal into ala cart and seeing if it's actually worth it.

The MSRP is actually set by the company itself not the store owner.

I admitted that I haven't been in a GW store for a reason. I practically came out and told you guys that I had no clue. I figured you guys could put two and two together but here goes.

I'm not saying anymore about it after this, I shouldn't have to explain this gak twice.

First of all, I was being jokey with my first comment. Hence the italics on "friendly", the exaggeration about being pounced on by four staff members all shilling product, and the smiley at the end.

Second, it was a little harder to tell with this one, but my attitude in the second half of that post was mostly sarcastic: "Oh sure, blame the customers.", "robbing you blind", etc. While I do really believe GW charges way too much for their models, and that their staff are too pushy (while not having experienced it for myself, I post/lurk on several forums, and I simply refuse to believe that that many people can all be bitching about the exact same thing without there being a good reason for it...the attitude is present on all of them, and I think calling every single one of those people a liar is just as foolish as what you all think I've done here), I came out and clearly admitted that I haven't been in a store myself at the end so that you could take my comments for what they were worth: admittedly, nothing. I haven't experienced the GW red shirt hard sell, I probably never will because I no longer have the opportunity, and I personally think traveling out of state to go to a GW store, which everyone tells me is a place I don't want to be, is a tad insane, so I'll just continue to take everyone else's word for it, if that's no problem for any of you.

Like I said, I came out and told you guys my argument was full of gak, so I really don't know how you get off by using that against me. Apparently I would have been better off just lying and making everyone think I had been in one, since apparently it's a bad thing to let a thousand negative comments about a certain thing slightly influence your own thoughts and opinions on said thing until proven otherwise.

Oh, and by the way Hobbs, your comment applies to all those people in this thread who are shilling that other store, Phoenix Games. You're being just as foolish as he implies I'm being, if you're taking the internet's word for it and hopping on down there because they said it was a good store. If you disagree, please explain to me what the difference is. And do keep in mind that the reason I'm not going to a GW store is because there isn't one in my entire state, and that it isn't because of all the bad press.

I don't mind people making a profit off stuff, but I don't see why I should be paying for a place to play via buying overpriced models. I'd much rather just directly pay the shopowner for it vs. see it marked up on each and every p[roduct I buy. Then I'd be able to gauge if the cost is worth it or not. I've found a club works way better because it's a bunch of guys you know and nobody is trying to make a living off of it, so it only needs to be break even. I don't see why this is contraversial for experienced gamers in an established area.

I'm also pretty hard on LGSs because as a small town player I've often run into the entitlement syndrome, i.e. I'm the only game in town so I am entitled to all gaming dollars for the area. Screw that, doubly so when the owner has a bunch of disgusting views that they decide to push every time you're in the shop. I'd rather play at a buddy's house or a clubhouse than give money to people like that.

My club is Mid-Atlantic Gamers-- we're a bit smaller than most and I don't think we've ever had more than a handfull of active tournament players. I think we're the only alt (as possed to historical) gaming club that operates outside a store in the region.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mikhaila wrote:

Last I looked, the reason for a FLGS to exist wasn't so that people who buy on the internet have a convenient place to pay for gaming space. Your judgement of them based on that is a bit flawed.

I look at it differently: I'll provide my customers a nice place to come and play games for free, including tables, scenery, painting classes and events. I do this because they support the store.

For the people that don't shop with me, but want to use my space? Well, I'd say you've outlived your usefullness to me.)

Again, why not allow people to pay you to play in your space, independant of buying overpriced models? That's something I've never been able to get an answer to from a shopkeeper. Really, it's breaking a package deal into ala cart and seeing if it's actually worth it.

Hobbs A: all you did was repaste your last statement, and B: copy mine about retail and sales.

Again, why not allow people to pay you to play in your space, independant of buying overpriced models? That's something I've never been able to get an answer to from a shopkeeper. Really, it's breaking a package deal into ala cart and seeing if it's actually worth it.

Because I'm not overpricing them. Because no matter what discount I gave, you'd always want something more. Because I'd go bankrupt in under 6 months.

Because the piddly amount of money I could charge you per game, which people would piss and moan about no matter how reasonable it was, is nothing, Absolutely Nothing, compared to the cost of having the gaming tables in the shop, and the time and effort put into the scenery and other things I do to support gamers.

Because I'd have a group of people coming into my shops, feeling entitled to service because they paid a whopping 2-5 bucks to play, and then try to convince everyone else that they were paying to much for models. The model doesn't work.

Instead, we've gone the other route. We offer gamers a place to come and play. We now have 33 tables, nearly a 1000 pieces of good quality scenery, and are running over 3 dozen tournaments this year, and quite a few more smaller events and apocalypse battles. Free paint and painting classes. Scenery making classes. Etc, Etc,

If I wanted to host a club, I'd close the stores, build another garage next to my house, and move the tables and scenery to it put in a bar. Then I'd just game with a dozen close friends, and not have to do the extra work, and could go to tournaments vs. run them for the gamers in the area. I win, my dozen close friends win, everyone else loses.

Discounting product and charging for tables is a losing equation that puts stores out of business.

mikhaila wrote:
build another garage next to my house, and move the tables and scenery to it put in a bar

Go on.. I like were your heading with this! Tell me more about this.. bar.

mikhaila wrote:Again, why not allow people to pay you to play in your space, independant of buying overpriced models? That's something I've never been able to get an answer to from a shopkeeper. Really, it's breaking a package deal into ala cart and seeing if it's actually worth it.

Because I'm not overpricing them. Because no matter what discount I gave, you'd always want something more. Because I'd go bankrupt in under 6 months.

Because the piddly amount of money I could charge you per game, which people would piss and moan about no matter how reasonable it was, is nothing, Absolutely Nothing, compared to the cost of having the gaming tables in the shop, and the time and effort put into the scenery and other things I do to support gamers.

Because I'd have a group of people coming into my shops, feeling entitled to service because they paid a whopping 2-5 bucks to play, and then try to convince everyone else that they were paying to much for models. The model doesn't work.

Discounting product and charging for tables is a losing equation that puts stores out of business.

QFT

Sergeant Horse wrote:

brother_zach wrote:

Sergeant Horse wrote:

Razzle wrote:They are getting rid of the South's GW stores.

For all you Georgia gamers who used to go to Mall of Georgia GW I highly highly recommend you to start going to Phoenix Games. It's only a mile or so away from the mall so it's not far at all.

It's where I go and the guys there are great, they have plenty of miniature gaming (GW and non-GW) and events. Their playing space is large with a bunch of well done tables and terrain, clean as well.

Hopefully I'll have my Dark Elf army painted soon so I can go play on tuesdays

luckily for Atlanta natives theres alot of good FLGS around the metro area

When i lived in the south atlanta/ Stockbridge area, there were no FLGS, mabe thats changed in 4 years though.

theres a good few now,

Giga-Bites Cafe - Marietta

Tower Games - Lawrenceville

Pheonix Games - Buford

Gaming Pit - Duluth

Treefort Games - Fayetteville,

all pretty good places too, been to a few for tournaments, Atlanta is a competitive area now

Sadly that still leaves us in the city slightly screwed (at least here in the SE). I'd love to try out my guard army after work some time but seeing as its a minimum half hour drive for the chance to maybe play. Not that the GW store staying open would have helped much I guess. I still haven't made it to Giga-Bites, maybe sometime soon.

Also worth mentioning: When people are actively playing a game in a FLGS, it is quite an ideal advertising tool. Any store that houses two well-painted armies and two well-washed players, is a store that has an instant appeal to newcomers to the hobby.

xipetotec wrote:

Sergeant Horse wrote:

brother_zach wrote:

Sergeant Horse wrote:

Razzle wrote:They are getting rid of the South's GW stores.

For all you Georgia gamers who used to go to Mall of Georgia GW I highly highly recommend you to start going to Phoenix Games. It's only a mile or so away from the mall so it's not far at all.

It's where I go and the guys there are great, they have plenty of miniature gaming (GW and non-GW) and events. Their playing space is large with a bunch of well done tables and terrain, clean as well.

Hopefully I'll have my Dark Elf army painted soon so I can go play on tuesdays

luckily for Atlanta natives theres alot of good FLGS around the metro area

When i lived in the south atlanta/ Stockbridge area, there were no FLGS, mabe thats changed in 4 years though.

theres a good few now,

Giga-Bites Cafe - Marietta

Tower Games - Lawrenceville

Pheonix Games - Buford

Gaming Pit - Duluth

Treefort Games - Fayetteville,

all pretty good places too, been to a few for tournaments, Atlanta is a competitive area now

Sadly that still leaves us in the city slightly screwed (at least here in the SE). I'd love to try out my guard army after work some time but seeing as its a minimum half hour drive for the chance to maybe play. Not that the GW store staying open would have helped much I guess. I still haven't made it to Giga-Bites, maybe sometime soon.

that is true I'm afraid, its a bit light around the SE, Giga-Bites is open daily though until 11, so if you get off around 6 from work, you should be able to make it there and get a game or two in

Mikhaila is right....from working in 2 FLGS's, I can tell you that when you give gamers a cookie, they want the milk, the remote to the TV, a warm blankie, and your whole bed.....

His store is a really great place to play at, and he has an excellent gaming community. I played at a tournament back in September, with about 30 some players...each with a fully painted army. And the level of sportsmanship was excellent....no heated arguements or spoilsports as far as I could see.

At the end of the day, the gamer has to decide if he is going to support the stores, and the business, or want to save a few bucks to play a game for a few years, until there are no places to play and no more game support....