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I would go with this;

HQ; Chaplain; JP

Elite; 10x Sternguard; 4 x Combi-Melta; DP
Elite; Ironclad; HF, Melta gun, Seismic hammer, HF; DP
Elite; Ironclad; HF, Melta gun, Seismic hammer, HF; DP

Troops; Tac squad, Multimelta/melta gun, Powerfist; Rhino
Troops; Tac squad, Missile Launcher/Flamer, powerfist; Rhino
Troops; Tac squad, Missile launcher/flamer, powerfist; Rhino

Heavy; Predator; AC with LC sponsons
Heavy; Predator; AC with LC sponsons

Fast; 10x Assault squad; 2 x Flamer, Powerfist. (Chaplain goes here.)
Fast; Land speeder; HB/HF

2000pts or thereabouts. (I couldn't find another 20 or so to make another tac squad MM/melta or give the Land speeder a MM...!)

You could go the whole hog and swap out the Rhno's for more drop pods...

not trying to do an all DP army and I dont run land speeders or bikes, ever.

Fair enough. Drop a powerfist on one of the Tac squads and take a dakka pred.

Three drop pods will work better than two, and also having two dreads give better target saturation.

Drop the pf's in the tac squads. They are a waste of points.

Take regular dreads with mm (and possibly swapping out the sb for a hf). AV13 won't add much to your survivability over av12 vs melta and the mm gets the bonus d6 at twice the distance, thus allowing more room for scatter.

I absolutely abhor assault marines. If you want/have to take em, meh.

I don't like sternguard, but if you are going to sink points in them, sink the points in them.

Chaplain w/jp/pf

3 x 10 man tac squad w/ml/flamer/rhino

2 x dreads w/mm/hf/pod

1 x 10 man sterguard squad w/6xcombi-meltas/2xhvy flamer/pod

3 x preds w/ac/las sponsons

1 x 10 man assault marine squad w/2xflamer/pf

2k even

Gives you lots of hf's and melta weapons that are podding in and with 3 pods you can mix and match. VS most armies, the 2 dreads come in and the sternguard goes in reserver. The sternguard are quite flexible and should be combat squaded with specific targets in mind. The assault squad is expensive but should be able to take on most cc units except for assault termies. The preds and ml tac squads give you a solid base of fire.

Runes of witnesses are a must have vs Nids.
Otherwise, your Farseer rolls 3D6 for a psychic test, if within two to a hive minded.
RoWi cancel this effect, see FAQ Eldar.

wuestenfux wrote:Runes of witnesses are a must have vs Nids.
Otherwise, your Farseer rolls 3D6 for a psychic test, if within two to a hive minded.
RoWi cancel this effect, see FAQ Eldar.

...

you do realize we are discussing Space Marines wuestenfux

Rinkydink wrote:Fair enough. Drop a powerfist on one of the Tac squads and take a dakka pred.

Three drop pods will work better than two, and also having two dreads give better target saturation.

only have my one ironclad dread. also i already have a dakka pred and taking another would put me at 4 heavy support

somebody suggested removing all PF from tacs? this is an all comers list and the PFs are there to discourage assault and deal with MCs walkers hqs etc

While PFs aren't as effective against some armies they are good in an all comers list for the reasons you suggest.

MCs fear hidden PFs more then anything because they can't kill them.

Assault squads are the one place where you shouldnt take a PF unless playing against a heavely meachanized army. assault squads with a power weapon and plasma pistol on the sergeant are brutal for taking out heavy weapons squads or intercepting assaulty units heading for more squishy targets. as far as weapons go its your choice really. flamers are good against hordes and can potentially cause more wounds then the Plasma pistols, but with the pistols you have more CC attacks, can kill MEQs, and pop vehicles too.

if you are strapped for points have half of the powerfists downgraded to power weapons. will discourage MEQs from assaulting, not so much MCs, but that is the trade off.

with the saved points you can buy some extra equipment.

have you considered Assault terminators? you could switch out the assault squad and use the saved points from the powerfist change mentioned above to have 6 or 7. Thunderhammer terminators aren't as mobile as assault marines, but will deter any MC and are effective against tanks to boot.

If you do do Assault terminators i don't recomend LCs for all comers lists. the TH/SS will last longer against low AP weapons and can threaten a wider variety of targets.

Ok well Im not a big fan of assault terms with no LR. but I am going to give my ass squad sarge a power sword. if i give my assault squad plas pistols do they get bonus CC attacks as well?

and another thing would you guys recommend dropping ironclad for 2 mm/hf landspeeders?

Yes the assault squad gets the attack. Plasma pistols are believe it or not, Pistols

MM/HF landspeeders are a bad idea. an anti-tank gun and an anti-infantry gun on the same package is bad. Ironclad can do much more damage to infantry with its 2 heavy flamers and can pound both infantry and vehicles in CC. both have a comparable range, the speeder can get into position faster, but that comes at the disadvanage of weak armor and non complementary weapons.

the only speeder i reccomend is the Typhoon. A heavy bolter and double Missile launcher are complementary. both can take out infantry and you don't lose much from shooting at vehicles. the longer range helps with survivability. 4+ cover is great, 4+ cover at a distance is better.

Brother-Chaplain Gaius wrote:somebody suggested removing all PF from tacs? this is an all comers list and the PFs are there to discourage assault and deal with MCs walkers hqs etc

Tactical squads suck at cc. Spending 25pts per squad (a more than 10% premium) only makes them suck slightly less.

The points are better spent someplace else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:MCs fear hidden PFs more then anything because they can't kill them.

Yes. If that is the only unit your opponent has, they will fear them. Other than that, you can't kill most mc's fast enough, so you get tied up in cc and along comes a supporting unit and you get eaten.

Grey Templar wrote:Assault squads are the one place where you shouldnt take a PF unless playing against a heavely meachanized army. assault squads with a power weapon and plasma pistol on the sergeant are brutal for taking out heavy weapons squads or intercepting assaulty units heading for more squishy targets. as far as weapons go its your choice really.

Umm...

Assault squads will devastate heavy weapon squads with or without any form of power weapon or power fist. A unit that wants to fight in cc wants to take power fists, unlike tac squads.

Power weapons are a worse option than power fists to take in marine squads.

The reason i said that is because many people think Assault squads suck and won't want to drop the points into an already relativly expensive choice.

I haven't had much success with PFs in my assault squads. Not many attacks from the fist and the rest of the squad really doesn't have effective anti-tank. I miss the old days when the whole squad could have melta-bombs

I now run assault squads as infantry killers, hence the power weapon (cheaper, more attacks, will kill MEQs just as reliably as PFs)

If i know there will be MCs i will pay for the fist, but the assault squad has the same problem as a tactical squad with a PF.

well since my chaplain is in my assault squad and already has the power weapon should i just keep the fist so I have both a PW and PF?

Grey Templar wrote:
I now run assault squads as infantry killers, hence the power weapon (cheaper, more attacks, will kill MEQs just as reliably as PFs)

If you're going to take a PW, you might as well run a LC instead. Same point costs, but the LC gets around a 1/8 of a kill more against PW vs MEQ targets. Past anything toughness 3, the LC becomes increasingly more effective than the PW.

Against toughness 3 or lower, the PW is the obvious upgrade of choice, but with all of those regular S 4 attacks, and two flamer templates preceding these, the chances of you really having to worry about units of toughness 3 become smaller and smaller.

Assault marines are more likely to have difficulty with MEQ and MC units, which are the areas that LC's excel.

I have tried LCs and twin LCs, but since i don't have any LCs the right size for PASMs i don't run them. working on converting them though

Shrike78 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:
I now run assault squads as infantry killers, hence the power weapon (cheaper, more attacks, will kill MEQs just as reliably as PFs)

If you're going to take a PW, you might as well run a LC instead. Same point costs, but the LC gets around a 1/8 of a kill more against PW vs MEQ targets. Past anything toughness 3, the LC becomes increasingly more effective than the PW.

Against toughness 3 or lower, the PW is the obvious upgrade of choice, but with all of those regular S 4 attacks, and two flamer templates preceding these, the chances of you really having to worry about units of toughness 3 become smaller and smaller.

Assault marines are more likely to have difficulty with MEQ and MC units, which are the areas that LC's excel.

I'm currently running 2 plasma pistols instead of the flamers on my assault squad, believe I updated the list as well

Grey Templar wrote:
MM/HF landspeeders are a bad idea. an anti-tank gun and an anti-infantry gun on the same package is bad. Ironclad can do much more damage to infantry with its 2 heavy flamers and can pound both infantry and vehicles in CC. both have a comparable range, the speeder can get into position faster, but that comes at the disadvanage of weak armor and non complementary weapons.
.

WTF? Are you kidding? Comparable range?? A walker vs a fast skimmer does not have comparable range.
Also paying 10pts for the chance of being a dual threat is a obvious choice, not to mention that its not that uncommon to be able to fire the flamer at units taking cover behind a tank. Not to mention that your Ironclad cant threaten armour when it arrives in its droppod, not to mention that it costs 265% as much as a MM/HF Speeder.

Speeders and MMABs are two of the best units in the SM codex


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dont take plasma pistols on your assault squads, a flamer will always be the better choice bar against tactical terminators (which no one uses...)

tedurur wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dont take plasma pistols on your assault squads, a flamer will always be the better choice bar against tactical terminators (which no one uses...)

Well... not exactly true... but so close to being true that it might as well be true so....

QFABCT

(Quoted For Almost Being the Complete Truth)