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Best watch out Bob, those new plastic kans are mos def showing up at our next game =P

lol scratch that, march 6th

I still have yet to win a game, which is a little more than disheartening. Oh well.

Is going all Heavy Bolter or Missile Launcher THAT important? I really do not feel like spending the money on the bitz. I was thinking about going 2x heavy bolter, 1x missile launcher, 1x plasma gun and seargent. Will that work?

Not as well against hordes, i seriously have lost 20 models to those rockets in one round.

Not as well against hordes, i seriously have lost 20 models to those rockets in one round.

Scouts armed with sniper rifles are a good choice. I would go heavy on the tactical squads, not so much with the terminators. Get a Land Raider crusader or redeemer (both work well) and have everything, including the Land Raider stay at the back of the board, take heavy bolters and flamers in each of your tactical squads and have your scouts sit in both corners, sniping and hoping to cause pinning attacks, giving those boyz a hard time getting to you.

My advice; make everything as shooty as possible and stay the hell away from him.

I play both armies and I have never won a game with orks where the opponant was playing with such a style. Though I suppose it could just be my lack of skill.


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BobTheChainsaw wrote:I still have yet to win a game, which is a little more than disheartening. Oh well.

Is going all Heavy Bolter or Missile Launcher THAT important? I really do not feel like spending the money on the bitz. I was thinking about going 2x heavy bolter, 1x missile launcher, 1x plasma gun and seargent. Will that work?

no plasma guns! not against orks, if you are fighting another space marine army they work great, but against orks they are next to useless.

EDIT: if the ork player uses vehicles as a mode of transportation, or some kind of kan wall, lascannons on the dread(s) and mm on the LR.

If you follow my comments as well as the other comments on this topic, your over-confident friend won't stand a chance.

Ironclad Dreadnoughts in Drop Pods are murder against those massive Boyz mobs. You've got to put a heavy flamer on them and get in close to those lootas or Sluggas. Then even with a PK nob they rarely manage to escape the Dread, giving you time to get over and help him out.

I find that it's helpful to keep your Transports moving over 6 and at about 15-18 inches away from his units on foot or 20 inches away from the Wagon with the Nobz to try to get him to use the Waagh! before he's ready. Sometimes they take the bait, sometimes they don't but it's good to make 'em think really hard about it.

Thunderfire Cannons and 4 Missile Launcher Devastators are really good too.

Mainly the point is to not let the Ork player control the pace of the game. If you're purely reactionary it's easy for him to herd you into a corner and slaughter you. A Land Raider full of Terminators tends to make the Greenskins think a little harder about getting within 19.5 inches of your lines.

Grey Templar wrote:

GloryToThe16th wrote:dreads arent strong against orks. for the same points cost bring 2 land speeders with heavy flamers.

charging PK Nob vs normal dred: 3 attacks, 1.5 hit, .85 do damage with 1/3 of those being glancing hits

A PK Nob on the charge receives 4 attacks. 3 base, 1 for charging.

my mistake but that dosen't change much and if a SM player wants to stay out of charge range and charge you he should be able to do it

Monster Rain wrote:Ironclad Dreadnoughts in Drop Pods are murder against those massive Boyz mobs. You've got to put a heavy flamer on them and get in close to those lootas or Sluggas. Then even with a PK nob they rarely manage to escape the Dread, giving you time to get over and help him out.

I find that it's helpful to keep your Transports moving over 6 and at about 15-18 inches away from his units on foot or 20 inches away from the Wagon with the Nobz to try to get him to use the Waagh! before he's ready. Sometimes they take the bait, sometimes they don't but it's good to make 'em think really hard about it.

Thunderfire Cannons and 4 Missile Launcher Devastators are really good too.

Mainly the point is to not let the Ork player control the pace of the game. If you're purely reactionary it's easy for him to herd you into a corner and slaughter you. A Land Raider full of Terminators tends to make the Greenskins think a little harder about getting within 19.5 inches of your lines.

So... I'm going to have to buy bitz. Great. It's like, 5$ per heavy bolter! Ridiculous!

Heavy Bolters aren't really what I would recommend. Maybe you could post up the list you've been using? You might not have to change as much as you think.

And if your friend uses Nobz you might want to keep those Plasma Guns... Just saying. The High Strength and AP2 will that Nob a sad panda. Let's see your list!

If hes playing a horde Ork army, you can AP him to death with a bolter. Beef up your tac squads with assault weapons, and remember that all tac marines have bolt pistols standard too, so if its ognna get ugly, you can pop him once for the AP, and then charge. he will get more attacks, but you will deny him the charge bonus. MOST Ork models have a 6+ save, so if you hang back and use the Dakka, then he shouldnt get to your line in one piece. as for high save/toughness models and vehicles, nothing a LasPred can't fix, or a missile launcher.

Ehrm, how were the termies routed when they won combat 6-3? How did you not get to shoot the hell out of the orks before the charge?

SP1: stable fire positions.
SP2: easily defencive/ difficult to get to positions
SP3: Lots of low-power high rate firepower (bolters, heavy bolters, storm bolters blast weapons)
SP4: in anything larger then 2,500 a Land raider is necesary. crusader or redeemer.
SP5: Flamer/blast weapons are a must in obj missions.
SP6: if you're doing OBJ missions, consider an elites/kantor army.
SP7: Besides terminators, the best sugestion I can give are Honour guardsmen.
(Assuming your oponent relies on troops, Relic blades won't be necessary, but at full power a good honour guard squad can cost around 600-800 points. they're extreemly expensive, but very effective.)

Against the average ork, on the charge 9 honour guard get 5 as basic powersword S4/ws4 CC attacks.
that's 45 attacks
Against orks with WS 4 thats a 4+ equiv. to 33% hits and 33% wound (S4T4) thats capable of between 11-12 kills as standard, with the champ, it's a further 6 attacks at 50% then 33% which is about 1-2 more wounds.

Furthurmore, Before that assault, frag grenades (aux.) at S3, 10 of them it generally hits around 30-40 guys (3-4 guys per template) it's likely that about 4 of them will miss (very random) it's 4+ so assuming this it is probably about 10 wounds.

This is very vague mathhammer.
This will probably depend on the weight of your dice, but it's amasing how often 10 grenades at S3 will kill your enemies for you.

Just my opinion

I cant remember, but you can google search for say, space marine bitz sites, or something along those lines.
*edit* wow didnt notice there was another page to this. I guess my answer doesnt make much sense lol

Here's a few nasty SM things for killing Orks by the pile:

Thunderfire cannon (as mentioned)
Whirlwind (denying them cover saves is very nice)

But the top tier of nastiness are twin-linked flamers in drop pods. Vulkan as HQ then sternguard with combi-flamers coming down in a pod should be able to just eat whatever mob they land near. Dreadnoughts with a twin-linked heavy flamer and another heavy flamer on their DCCW dropping in work well also and don't necessarily require Vulkan. The sternguard squad with with linked combi flamers is probably the most dead Ork for your buck though. Depends on many factors, notably scatter of the pod, but if they can manage 7 hits each with their templates (low scatter, decent mob spacing), then that translates to 26.25 dead Orks on average from 5 sternguard, or 7 sternguard give about 36.75 wounds, which should ensure a dead mob. Then with any luck they'll get another round or two of shooting with their bolters and hellfire rounds, or at least they'll drag down some more Orks with their 2 attacks each in assault. Price tag is about the same as an Ork mob though.

I agree with the sternguard. My brother has shoved those down my throat a few times. And even on his worst luck turn, they wiped out a big gunz squad, and most of my ard boyz squad that assaulted him. Thats pretty good considering his original idea for them went to hell really fast lol.

GloryToThe16th wrote:Bob: if you can keep them from charging you your chances get alot better. much more so than normal.

This is probably one of the best pieces of advice, I used to play SM and my friend played orks, even if your unit is going to lose melee, its always better to charge them than to be charged, S3, 3 attack orks are much less powerful than if they charge. Your squads will probably live through a melee for one round which will give you a round to move your other squads away to get a few rounds of shooting in.

Dakka Preds, heavy bolter or missile devastators, whirlwinds, sternguard with their cover ignoring rounds, and LRC's are your friends against Orks.

Thanks for all the advice, guys. I'm still a beginner, so I'm sure I'll win... someday! Due to budget concerns, my devestator squad is going 2x Heavy Bolter and 2x Heavy Missile launcher.

Ya i feel srry for you! the orks are way overpowered and the space marines just okay, as always! I run orks n' just realized how to kill dreadnaughts!

bob land speeders with heavy flamers and multi- meltas + vulkan are the medicine for orks. you'll burn the green off of anything lighter than a nob. terminators with thunder hammers for them. good luck because orks are really strong.


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bob don't take heavy bolters. they don't kill orks fast enough.

your targets basically boil down to: light infantry, heavy infantry, armor/monsters. bolters and flamers for light infantry (orks), plasma weapons for heavy infantry/monsters, meltas for monsters/tanks. ignore all the other weapons in your codex: these are the ones you want.

i can't say enough good about land speeders. i'd run an army of them if they'd let me.

GloryToThe16th wrote:bob land speeders with heavy flamers and multi- meltas + vulkan are the medicine for orks. you'll burn the green off of anything lighter than a nob. terminators with thunder hammers for them. good luck because orks are really strong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
bob don't take heavy bolters. they don't kill orks fast enough.

your targets basically boil down to: light infantry, heavy infantry, armor/monsters. bolters and flamers for light infantry (orks), plasma weapons for heavy infantry/monsters, meltas for monsters/tanks. ignore all the other weapons in your codex: these are the ones you want.

i can't say enough good about land speeders. i'd run an army of them if they'd let me.

Well I already built my heavy bolters, so too bad.

BobTheChainsaw wrote:I still have yet to win a game, which is a little more than disheartening. Oh well.
Is going all Heavy Bolter or Missile Launcher THAT important? I really do not feel like spending the money on the bitz. I was thinking about going 2x heavy bolter, 1x missile launcher, 1x plasma gun and seargent. Will that work?

no plasma guns! not against orks, if you are fighting another space marine army they work great, but against orks they are next to useless.