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See that's one thing I'm thinking about... The parasite is something I really want to try, and there's no better coversave/bodyguard than a unit that has the same movement profile as it does. Then detach it, attack 2 different squads, and you could have a pretty decent assault phase between the two. I guess I am worried about synapse too much because I'm used to the old rules.

Typically I might have to take 1 instinctive behaviour test in a whole game. One thing I am worried about is the lurk behaviour, which gaunts, lictors, and gargoyles have... Those are all units I basically don't want to be lurking--I want them assaulting! But I too have been deep striking a trygon prime.

Around these parts we play competitively but no one's a dick about it (at least my boys aren't). I regularly have to deal with marine character cheese, terminator spam, monolith spam, and IG infinite infantry. But I agree that gargoyles have more punch in CC, especially if supported and attacking small squads.

I guess I just wish there was a tidy spot to keep them in the list... Not in a generalist position where they don't do much of anything. Or in a position where their sole purpose is to support a single dude who can be ID'd with relative ease.

They've got some good things going for them ... Numbers, they're cheap and you can move them 12+D6" a turn ... Now if your list has Tervigorn he can boost his synapse to 18" meaning you don't need to worry about them lurking.

Your Turn 1: Gargoyles move 12+D6"
His Turn 1 does he shoot the cheap nats flying at him or go after some of the bigger threats?
Your Turn 2: Tervigorn pops Dominion, Gargoyles (what ever is left) move 12" at this point you've moved them a total of 25-30" you should be in charge range ... will they win combat? Unlikely, however they will be able to tie up some for a turn and if they fall back on your turn they'll just enter Synapse range, you can then send whats left at another distant target.

(oh should mention the tail trick ... make sure the unit has longish tail of models when you assault all your models will move forward 6" but with a long enough tail can still be in Synapse range (if doing the above it's 18") ... so for your turn your fearless and don't run away ... on your enemies turn through removing casualties from the tail and consolidation you'll now no longer be fearless and runaway back into Synapse and be usable again ... ok some times they are chased down or completely slaughtered ... they're just meat for the grinder, who cares)

Has anyone tried running them up with Shrikes behind for Synapse. If I recall the shrikes are synaspe creatures (I am at work and do not have codex, forgive me if I am wrong.) They would give a nice coversave to the shrikes and it would be a nice added bonus to get gargoyles and shrikes into CC together.

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:See that's one thing I'm thinking about... The parasite is something I really want to try, and there's no better coversave/bodyguard than a unit that has the same movement profile as it does. Then detach it, attack 2 different squads, and you could have a pretty decent assault phase between the two. I guess I am worried about synapse too much because I'm used to the old rules.

no, no no, you never detach your parasite, the only time where I might is if my gargoyles were mostly dead and he had made a 6 base ripper swarm. you need to engage in a way where he won't get powerfisted, If he makes babies you can place them with the rules however you like, I try and palce them between my squad and any counterassault units that may be nearby. against non mech IG I actually had him and 20 gargoyles roll almost an entire flank when he spawned more than a dozen ripper bases in one combat.

He's a really weak unit, unless there are some ABSURDLY weak CC units nearby that he could beat up and not die I'd keep in in the group.

//note, you can also stick him with flying warriors or flying rippers IIRC.

Grundz wrote://note, you can also stick him with flying warriors or flying rippers IIRC.

He's an IC so he can join any one that isn't always a unit of one model.

Grundz wrote:

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:See that's one thing I'm thinking about... The parasite is something I really want to try, and there's no better coversave/bodyguard than a unit that has the same movement profile as it does. Then detach it, attack 2 different squads, and you could have a pretty decent assault phase between the two. I guess I am worried about synapse too much because I'm used to the old rules.

no, no no, you never detach your parasite, the only time where I might is if my gargoyles were mostly dead and he had made a 6 base ripper swarm. you need to engage in a way where he won't get powerfisted, If he makes babies you can place them with the rules however you like, I try and palce them between my squad and any counterassault units that may be nearby. against non mech IG I actually had him and 20 gargoyles roll almost an entire flank when he spawned more than a dozen ripper bases in one combat.

He's a really weak unit, unless there are some ABSURDLY weak CC units nearby that he could beat up and not die I'd keep in in the group.

//note, you can also stick him with flying warriors or flying rippers IIRC.

I think it depends on who you're attacking... If I were charged by parasite and gargoyle brood I would put all hits on the easy to kill gargoyles and if I win, it's fearless saves for everybody. Obviously you wouldn't put him on a character but if I was going to charge units of IG I'd rather charge 2 different units, hopefully win by a little, keep them in combat, and then finish them off in his assault phase so I can get a fresh charge and not get blasted after I massacre a single unit and they fall back. I definitely see your point and I think I just need to proxy something and see how he works for me. I'm trying to get a flying/outflanking list and I'd love to have that little guy in there.

For Gargs, I would recommend just using Adrenals. Toxin seems like it should synergize well with blinding poison but I have found that it is the exact opposite.

What I mean is, toxin makes your successful to-hit rolls wound more easily. However, Blinding poison makes some of your hit rolls wound automaticly, bypassing the to-wound step and thus bypassing the bonus you pay for via toxin sacs.

Adrenals, on the other hand, have a bonus init that works for all attacks, and the str bonus works for the same number of attacks as poison does, BUT it makes it so you can glance rear armor 10.

As for playing with Gargs, in my opinion Gargs fit in very well in an army that is not running either a hormagant spam or a tervigon+termagant spam. So, gargs find a home in warrior and genestealer based troop armies.

In my experience, all nid armies in 5th need some kind of hordy element in their list to be successful, and in order to maximize effectiveness once a hordy branch is choosen, it should be specialized in to provide redundancy to the exclusion of other horde nid units.