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It's not quite as straight-forward as that.

The Deep Strike rules refer to models not being able to 'move any further' on the turn that they arrive, suggesting that the arrival itself is considered movement even if it doesn't explicitly say so.

Models Deep Striking also count as having moved for the purposes of firing weapons.

As an additional consideration, the Jump Infantry rules list the ability to Deep Strike under Jump Infantry Movement.

As I said, opinions are divided as to whether all of that actually means that Deep Strike is movement. But while it doesn't specifically state as much, the evidence in the book certainly suggests that it should be so considered.

So if it is movement, do you play it as the Unit having to Take a Dangerous Terrain tests if they attempt to deep strike into Difficult Terrain, but Subsequently Scatter and the final position is not in difficult terrain?

No. You could certainly make a case for doing that as per RAW, but I play it that the final position is the position that the unit Deep Strikes to. They're not moved from the initial location.

Page 95 of the rule books says this about misshaps

Teleporting or dropping onto a crowded battlefield may
prove extremely dangerous, as one may arrive miles
away from the intended objective or even inside solid
rock! If any of the models in a deep striking unit
cannot be deployed because they would land off the
table, in impassable terrain, on top of a friendly model,
or on top or within 1" of an enemy model, something
has gone wrong. The controlling player must roll on the
deep strike Mishap table and apply the results.

Page 69 of the space marine codex says the following

Should a drop pod scatter on top of impassible terrain or another model (friend or Foe!) then reduce the scatter distance by the minimum required in order to avoid the obstacle.

So in other words, even if you targeted an enemy vehicle, model, or dangerous terrain, you always have to move the drop to the minimum "safe" distance.

thus the only way to roll on the mishap table is to scatter off of the table because there were no safe zones to land in on the way.

gannam wrote:Page 95 of the rule books says this about misshaps

Teleporting or dropping onto a crowded battlefield may
prove extremely dangerous, as one may arrive miles
away from the intended objective or even inside solid
rock! If any of the models in a deep striking unit
cannot be deployed because they would land off the
table, in impassable terrain, on top of a friendly model,
or on top or within 1" of an enemy model, something
has gone wrong. The controlling player must roll on the
deep strike Mishap table and apply the results.

Page 69 of the space marine codex says the following

Should a drop pod scatter on top of impassible terrain or another model (friend or Foe!) then reduce the scatter distance by the minimum required in order to avoid the obstacle.

So in other words, even if you targeted an enemy vehicle, model, or dangerous terrain, you always have to move the drop to the minimum "safe" distance.

thus the only way to roll on the mishap table is to scatter off of the table because there were no safe zones to land in on the way.

Sorry mate, completely wrong. The rule says "reduce the scatter distance by the minimum required in order to avoid the obstacle." If you aim at a unit, you will mishap if you roll a hit, because there is no way to reduce the scatter, because you didn't scatter.

gannam wrote:So in other words, even if you targeted an enemy vehicle, model, or dangerous terrain, you always have to move the drop to the minimum "safe" distance.

Nope. The Drop Pod's guidance system allows you to reduce the scatter by however much is necessary to miss the obstruction. It doesn't allow you to move to somewhere else entirely.

So if you assume that aiming the pod's arrival on top of another unit is allowed and it lands on that unit, you are going to mishap because there is no way of reducing the scatter to miss the unit.

Your making my point for me.

Hitting your target means you scatter 0 inches.

The drop pod guides you to a clear landing area even if you roll a hit and therefore there is never anyway you can take a misshap test unless you scatter off the table.

YOU CANNOT LAND ON A UNIT, OR TERRAIN WITH A DROP POD. PERIOD.

gannam wrote:

Hitting your target means you scatter 0 inches.

Exactly. And you cannot reduce a scatter of 0 inches.

gannam wrote:Hitting your target means you scatter 0 inches.

The drop pod guides you to a clear landing area even if you roll a hit

No, again, it doesn't. The rule you quoted just before says that you reduce the scatter. It doesn't say that you move the Pod to the nearest clear landing spot.

If you don't scatter, you can't reduce the distance you scatter.

It sounds to me like you suggesting that a drop pod can land on enemy troops.

So what happens to the enemy troops at that point?

gannam wrote:It sounds to me like you suggesting that a drop pod can land on enemy troops.

So what happens to the enemy troops at that point?

Nothing, because the Drop pod mishaps at that point. That's why you don't aim Drop pods at an enemy unit.

gannam wrote:It sounds to me like you suggesting that a drop pod can land on enemy troops.

So what happens to the enemy troops at that point?

The normal Deep Strike rules apply, and the Pod mishaps because it has no way to avoid the enemy models at that point.

Oh joy, another thinly veiled mawloc thread.

To recap, and all I will say:

Veldrith wrote:Doesn't the 1'' rule prevent you from "placing the model anywhere on the table in the position you wish it to land in"?

fixed, and no it doesn't

Alas, the thread became derailed -- It was originally (and only intended to be) a Trygon and Drop Pod thread. :(

Veldrith wrote:Boltguns have a range of 24'', and 12'' if you move. If my opponent thinks the gun shoots 24'' even if he moves, then he's wrong, because the book says so. Deep Strike does not appear under forms of movement, so it isn't, even if someone wants it to be.

Welcome to YMDC, go read the the last 50 threads. You're just repeating the same arguements 50% of the people repeated. Exect the people that already chose A to choose A again, and those who chose B to choose B again. Argue all you like, it won't change anyones minds, one way or another.

It's like the Deffrolla debates that will go on for fething ever until....................wait, what's that in the distance? Why, it's Don Quiote, ramming windmills with a Deffrolla!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gannam wrote:Your making my point for me.

Hitting your target means you scatter 0 inches.

The drop pod guides you to a clear landing area even if you roll a hit and therefore there is never anyway you can take a misshap test unless you scatter off the table.

YOU CANNOT LAND ON A UNIT, OR TERRAIN WITH A DROP POD. PERIOD.

Correct about a unit. As if you do, you must either reduce scatter, or you mishap. Terrain is just fine to land in. Impassable terrain isn't. You reduce scatter to avoid it, or mishap. Aiming pods at troops and impassable terrain is bad. Auto mishap 1/3 of the time, at least.

Deepstrike is very very clear about its rules. It says anywhere on the table. Not that it follows rules of movement, but anywhere on the table. Yes that means it can deepstrike onto the table where your models currently are. (not on top of your models, as nothing anywhere says anything about placing the DS'ing troops on top of anything but the table.)

Enemy models and friendly models are referred to as impassable terrain, as per the BRB.

Terrain is "part of the table", as when you deploy models on a hill, they're still on the table. If you disagree, you're dumb.

As per wobbly model rule, on the same page where models are referred to as terrain, you are advised to use a marker / finger / something in place of putting a model on a piece of terrain where it runs the risk of falling off, being damaged, etc.

Thus, when I place my model on your troops, I'm placing it on impassable terrain which is too wobbly to balance my model on properly.

So, I'll use my finger.

If you disagree with it, then I'll use my finger in a more vulgar way, pack up the models, and leave.

Actually, I'd disagree with it due to page 11 that doesn't allow models to "move into or the the space occupied by another model". Are you moving that model into space occupied by my model? If so, can't go there. And yeah, I consider Deep Strike, to include the initial placement of your first model, to be movement...................

don_mondo wrote:Actually, I'd disagree with it due to page 11 that doesn't allow models to "move into or the the space occupied by another model". Are you moving that model into space occupied by my model? If so, can't go there. And yeah, I consider Deep Strike, to include the initial placement of your first model, to be movement...................

So you ask for/do DT tests if a model is initially placed in such terrain but scatters into a clear area?

Nitewolf wrote:

don_mondo wrote:Actually, I'd disagree with it due to page 11 that doesn't allow models to "move into or the the space occupied by another model". Are you moving that model into space occupied by my model? If so, can't go there. And yeah, I consider Deep Strike, to include the initial placement of your first model, to be movement...................

So you ask for/do DT tests if a model is initially placed in such terrain but scatters into a clear area?

@ Don_

Also, if the deviation from your initial spot would carry your deep striking unit completely over/through a friendly or enemy unit, or over/through impassable/difficult terrain, how do you handle that?

You could interpret it that the deep-striking unit is moving from A (a position not on the game board, for instance a Thuderhawk/drop pod bay/teleport room) to position B (initial location) but if it scatters then it is moving from A to C (the place the unit scatters to) not A to B to C. Therefore if the model hits DT it must take a test but if it scatters into clear terrain then it doesn't, but it is still nevertheless movement.

Saldiven wrote:

Nitewolf wrote:

don_mondo wrote:Actually, I'd disagree with it due to page 11 that doesn't allow models to "move into or the the space occupied by another model". Are you moving that model into space occupied by my model? If so, can't go there. And yeah, I consider Deep Strike, to include the initial placement of your first model, to be movement...................

So you ask for/do DT tests if a model is initially placed in such terrain but scatters into a clear area?

@ Don_

Also, if the deviation from your initial spot would carry your deep striking unit completely over/through a friendly or enemy unit, or over/through impassable/difficult terrain, how do you handle that?

the first time a drop dop encounter something it stops even if its scatter would be enough to take it completely over the object.

The Watcher in the Dark wrote:You could interpret it that the deep-striking unit is moving from A (a position not on the game board, for instance a Thuderhawk/drop pod bay/teleport room) to position B (initial location) but if it scatters then it is moving from A to C (the place the unit scatters to) not A to B to C. Therefore if the model hits DT it must take a test but if it scatters into clear terrain then it doesn't, but it is still nevertheless movement.

And if you happen to cross impassible terrain the game implodes.

But you aren't crossing it, you are arriving at a point on the other side of it.