| Author |
Message |
 |
|
|
|
|
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
2010/02/28 01:07:17
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Dakka Veteran
|
Albatross wrote:Plus words are just arbitrary symbols, with absolutely zero in the way of inherent meaning. Any meaning we ascribe to them is governed by convention, negotiation and assumption. It follows that idioms should be no different in this respect.
That attitude could render us completely incapable of rational conversation.
|
In a Society in which there is no law, and in theory no compulsion, the only arbiter of behaviour is public opinion. But public opinion, because of the tremendous urge to conformity in gregarious animals, is less tolerant than any system of law. When human beings are governed by "thou shalt not", the individual can practise a certain amount of eccentricity: when they are supposedly governed by "love" or "reason", he is under continuous pressure to make him behave and think in exactly the same way as everyone else.
George Orwell is my hero.
Social Experiment: if you're pissed like me, copy and paste this into your sig, and add a number after it.
PISSED 8374982374983749873948234
Check out my band Man In A Shed |
|
|
 |
|
2010/02/28 01:08:51
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
|
Or any conversation, for that matter. But I think you'll find that fluid isn't quite as fluid as people suspect it to be.
|
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 01:09:20
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Fixture of Dakka
Manchester UK
|
Frightening, isn't it? Structuralism and semiology freak me out when I'm stoned... 
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/02/28 01:09:38
 Cheesecat wrote:
I almost always agree with Albatross, I can't see why anyone wouldn't.
|
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 01:11:32
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Dakka Veteran
|
dogma wrote:Or any conversation, for that matter. But I think you'll find that fluid isn't quite as fluid as people suspect it to be.
I know I should understand what you meant by that, I honestly do...
...but could you please clarify?
|
In a Society in which there is no law, and in theory no compulsion, the only arbiter of behaviour is public opinion. But public opinion, because of the tremendous urge to conformity in gregarious animals, is less tolerant than any system of law. When human beings are governed by "thou shalt not", the individual can practise a certain amount of eccentricity: when they are supposedly governed by "love" or "reason", he is under continuous pressure to make him behave and think in exactly the same way as everyone else.
George Orwell is my hero.
Social Experiment: if you're pissed like me, copy and paste this into your sig, and add a number after it.
PISSED 8374982374983749873948234
Check out my band Man In A Shed |
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 01:12:52
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
|
Albatross wrote:
Frightening, isn't it? Structuralism and semiology freak me out when I'm stoned...
Try picturing atomic particles churning around one another as they flot through space; gradually forming extemporaneous images.
nintendoeats wrote:
I know I should understand what you meant by that, I honestly do...
...but could you please clarify?
Even in saying a word the speaker is lending an atomic quality to interaction which prevents any given phrase from having an entirely free-floating meaning.
|
|
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2010/02/28 01:14:52
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 01:16:51
Subject: Re:Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Dakka Veteran
|
Or take a ganer at this. Just imaginewhat is going on inside that black mass...
hehe, I love simulations of black holes...
|
In a Society in which there is no law, and in theory no compulsion, the only arbiter of behaviour is public opinion. But public opinion, because of the tremendous urge to conformity in gregarious animals, is less tolerant than any system of law. When human beings are governed by "thou shalt not", the individual can practise a certain amount of eccentricity: when they are supposedly governed by "love" or "reason", he is under continuous pressure to make him behave and think in exactly the same way as everyone else.
George Orwell is my hero.
Social Experiment: if you're pissed like me, copy and paste this into your sig, and add a number after it.
PISSED 8374982374983749873948234
Check out my band Man In A Shed |
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 01:18:48
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Fixture of Dakka
Manchester UK
|
@nintendoeats - Well, it just means that even if we accept that much of the way we interpret anything is pretty much arbitrary - doesn't mean that the cultural negotiations and conventions that have lead us to these interpretations could suddenly just vanish, or cease to have any meaning to us in PRACTICAL terms. I could spend all day convincing you that a table is not really a table, and that 'table' is meaningless. But it's still for all intents and purposes, a table.
Saying that, there have been cases where people have had a head injury and woken up speaking fluent german.
|
Cheesecat wrote:
I almost always agree with Albatross, I can't see why anyone wouldn't.
|
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 01:18:52
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Dakka Veteran
|
dogma wrote:Even in saying a word the speaker is lending an atomic quality to interaction which prevents any given phrase from having an entirely free-floating meaning.
...That sounds more like The Secret than I am alltogether comfortable with...
|
In a Society in which there is no law, and in theory no compulsion, the only arbiter of behaviour is public opinion. But public opinion, because of the tremendous urge to conformity in gregarious animals, is less tolerant than any system of law. When human beings are governed by "thou shalt not", the individual can practise a certain amount of eccentricity: when they are supposedly governed by "love" or "reason", he is under continuous pressure to make him behave and think in exactly the same way as everyone else.
George Orwell is my hero.
Social Experiment: if you're pissed like me, copy and paste this into your sig, and add a number after it.
PISSED 8374982374983749873948234
Check out my band Man In A Shed |
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 01:20:45
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
|
Yeah, The Secret draws on ordinary language philosophy quite a bit. Though I don't think its a conscious move.
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/02/28 01:20:55
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 01:27:38
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Noble of the Alter Kindred
United Kingdom
|
Owned
I hate this phrase. sorry but it has connotations of slavery in my book
(Can I say, "in my book" on this thread without risking derision?)
"I so totally owned him"
kids! honestly 
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/02/28 01:28:39
|
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 01:30:38
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Dakka Veteran
|
I had never thought about it that way. Its so absurd already though, I don't know if the cultural connotations even matter.
(in my book is fine "In the book that I would write")
|
In a Society in which there is no law, and in theory no compulsion, the only arbiter of behaviour is public opinion. But public opinion, because of the tremendous urge to conformity in gregarious animals, is less tolerant than any system of law. When human beings are governed by "thou shalt not", the individual can practise a certain amount of eccentricity: when they are supposedly governed by "love" or "reason", he is under continuous pressure to make him behave and think in exactly the same way as everyone else.
George Orwell is my hero.
Social Experiment: if you're pissed like me, copy and paste this into your sig, and add a number after it.
PISSED 8374982374983749873948234
Check out my band Man In A Shed |
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 01:40:50
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Noble of the Alter Kindred
United Kingdom
|
you're correct- don't seriously think there is that much to to it - but even so, "owning someone" sounds plain wrong on ethical grounds and just doesn't sound good on the ear to me.
A less offensnsive phrase that also sounds odd is "My bad" but have used it myself to show "that I am down with the kids" 
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/02/28 01:41:22
|
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 01:45:22
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Dakka Veteran
|
Its all about the Schadenfreude, so the slavery part just seems to add to its effectiveness. It certainly needs to be said correctly though, becuase it can sound downright aestheticly nasty.
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/02/28 01:45:36
In a Society in which there is no law, and in theory no compulsion, the only arbiter of behaviour is public opinion. But public opinion, because of the tremendous urge to conformity in gregarious animals, is less tolerant than any system of law. When human beings are governed by "thou shalt not", the individual can practise a certain amount of eccentricity: when they are supposedly governed by "love" or "reason", he is under continuous pressure to make him behave and think in exactly the same way as everyone else.
George Orwell is my hero.
Social Experiment: if you're pissed like me, copy and paste this into your sig, and add a number after it.
PISSED 8374982374983749873948234
Check out my band Man In A Shed |
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 02:49:25
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot
|
I think "owned" originates from gambling. "I will outdo you so badly in this game of wagers that you will have to sell yourself into slavery to me in payment for your debts".
I like "back in the day" too. It's not very descriptive, but it's not supposed to be.
|
Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
|
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 06:22:31
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Enigmatic Sorcerer of Chaos
|
Talk to the hand! Talk to the hand!
|
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 06:36:48
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot
|
You forgot to say "'cause the face ain't listenin'".
|
Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
|
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 08:16:15
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Enigmatic Sorcerer of Chaos
|
I'm sorry. Forgive me for "not bein' all that and a bag of chips."
Perhaps we should just blame Springer for the devolution of the language?
|
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 12:18:15
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress
Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.
|
nintendoeats wrote:devolution has no meaning in the context that we are discussing. evolution means slow change through a method of selection. I don't see that there is any opposite process to that.
The entire point of the thread was a comment on how language is devolving.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Owned
I hate this phrase. sorry but it has connotations of slavery in my book
(Can I say, "in my book" on this thread without risking derision?)
"I so totally owned him"
kids! honestly
No owned comes from pwned. The p was replaced with an o so it made more sense for those who did not understand the origins.
Back in the 70's just about the only 'online' game was chess, so everyone in computing departments played even those who didnt like chess much for the novelty of playing games on a computer. Competition was high, and some were not as good players , or gracious winners as others. This led to people getting stuffed because a stupid move or oversight allowed a pwn to threaten the qen or kng, hence publically 'pwned' when the game is replayed from a save file. It is entirely due to the three letter code used in chess and long predates leetspeek.
|
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/02/28 12:27:04
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. |
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 14:17:15
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
|
Back in the day, when I were a lad, young folks didn’t know how lucky they were.
Now they’re all like, “Innit”, and I’m all like “Whatever” and “Am I listening?”
Anyway, keep it real, homies.
Doubleplusungood.
|
|
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 14:23:26
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Noble of the Alter Kindred
United Kingdom
|
It's more like "Wohevah" doh, innit
|
|
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 14:24:40
Subject: Re:Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
|
My public school accent is leaking through the keyboard.
|
|
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 14:57:50
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Wing Commander
The home of the Alamo, TX
|
Ah, so thats how The Hurt Locker won at the BAFTA's (regarding the OP's article). 
|
|
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 15:09:29
Subject: Re:Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Noble of the Alter Kindred
United Kingdom
|
Now I have put on my power armour feel a little safer but will still run and hide. Could be a tad contentious.
"You do the math!"
Math?
At school I never excelled at mathmatics
never had a subject called mathmatic
nor physic, which is an archaic term for a doctor.
We did do physics however, at which I failed.
My real ojection is hearing British children say "math". The Americans have distorted English enough for it to make any real difference!
now I really am going to have to run and hide!
One more, the use of the word literally.
Hear some amazing things, such as the football commentator who claimed a player literally bulldozed through the midfield!
Don't think the groundsman was too impressed! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 15:17:49
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Dakka Veteran
|
Orlanth wrote:nintendoeats wrote:devolution has no meaning in the context that we are discussing. evolution means slow change through a method of selection. I don't see that there is any opposite process to that.
The entire point of the thread was a comment on how language is devolving.
I said eroding, ERODING DAMN YOU!!!!
|
In a Society in which there is no law, and in theory no compulsion, the only arbiter of behaviour is public opinion. But public opinion, because of the tremendous urge to conformity in gregarious animals, is less tolerant than any system of law. When human beings are governed by "thou shalt not", the individual can practise a certain amount of eccentricity: when they are supposedly governed by "love" or "reason", he is under continuous pressure to make him behave and think in exactly the same way as everyone else.
George Orwell is my hero.
Social Experiment: if you're pissed like me, copy and paste this into your sig, and add a number after it.
PISSED 8374982374983749873948234
Check out my band Man In A Shed |
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 16:01:45
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Preacher of the Emperor
|
I remember when kids first started to put little curly ques on the wings of the "m" hieroglyph and now they're putting them on the "m"s in King Tut's tomb! It's anarchy I tell you, ANARCHY!
Old gripe is very, very, very old.
|
mattyrm wrote: I will bro fist a toilet cleaner.
I will chainfist a pretentious English literature student who wears a beret. 
|
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 16:04:50
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Dakka Veteran
|
Of course, in that situation he would still have his precious "m" to work with, whereas in the case of "gate" we have lost a portion of our vocabulary.
|
In a Society in which there is no law, and in theory no compulsion, the only arbiter of behaviour is public opinion. But public opinion, because of the tremendous urge to conformity in gregarious animals, is less tolerant than any system of law. When human beings are governed by "thou shalt not", the individual can practise a certain amount of eccentricity: when they are supposedly governed by "love" or "reason", he is under continuous pressure to make him behave and think in exactly the same way as everyone else.
George Orwell is my hero.
Social Experiment: if you're pissed like me, copy and paste this into your sig, and add a number after it.
PISSED 8374982374983749873948234
Check out my band Man In A Shed |
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 16:07:47
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Preacher of the Emperor
|
We've lost nothing. We've expanded upon a tiny little piece of our pop culture vocabulary. Has tacking "-gate" onto the end of ever minor scandal lost all meaning? Sure. Has Watergate itself lost any significance? No.
|
mattyrm wrote: I will bro fist a toilet cleaner.
I will chainfist a pretentious English literature student who wears a beret.
|
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 16:16:52
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Dakka Veteran
|
Tyyr wrote:Has tacking "-gate" onto the end of ever minor scandal lost all meaning? Sure.
And THIS is what I am talking about.
|
In a Society in which there is no law, and in theory no compulsion, the only arbiter of behaviour is public opinion. But public opinion, because of the tremendous urge to conformity in gregarious animals, is less tolerant than any system of law. When human beings are governed by "thou shalt not", the individual can practise a certain amount of eccentricity: when they are supposedly governed by "love" or "reason", he is under continuous pressure to make him behave and think in exactly the same way as everyone else.
George Orwell is my hero.
Social Experiment: if you're pissed like me, copy and paste this into your sig, and add a number after it.
PISSED 8374982374983749873948234
Check out my band Man In A Shed |
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 16:20:35
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Preacher of the Emperor
|
But why is it worth bitching about? It's not like it was clever to begin with, or even worth lamenting. Adding "-gate" onto something has never been clever or reserved for anything of import. You're bemoaning the total dilution of a pop-culture turn of the phrase that was idiotic the first time it was used?
|
mattyrm wrote: I will bro fist a toilet cleaner.
I will chainfist a pretentious English literature student who wears a beret.
|
|
|
|
|
2010/02/28 16:27:27
Subject: Yet another valid turn of phrase is demeaned
|
|
Dakka Veteran
|
Yes. Because there was a time when it was more or less useful.
Hell, even "troopergate" seemed suitable, there are places for the term.
|
In a Society in which there is no law, and in theory no compulsion, the only arbiter of behaviour is public opinion. But public opinion, because of the tremendous urge to conformity in gregarious animals, is less tolerant than any system of law. When human beings are governed by "thou shalt not", the individual can practise a certain amount of eccentricity: when they are supposedly governed by "love" or "reason", he is under continuous pressure to make him behave and think in exactly the same way as everyone else.
George Orwell is my hero.
Social Experiment: if you're pissed like me, copy and paste this into your sig, and add a number after it.
PISSED 8374982374983749873948234
Check out my band Man In A Shed |
|
|
|
|
|
|
