Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Of course, if you disagree, then by the letter of the BGB, we should make all the older models wear their old bases.
All those metal termies back on little bases and pie plate the crap out of them till our sick little hearts burst with joy.

I see we are starting to get through to you.

I still use my old metal terminators on their 25mm bases (it's because I also still use them for spacehulk, and the 40mms don't fit in the 30mm grid squares).
All of my shooty ones, that is - as I have no old assault termies, only the plastics.

Two of my old (metal) eldar war walkers are still on their old 40mm square monster bases. As is one of my Wraithlords. I still use them this way. No-one has sports chipmunked me on them yet.

Mind you, I don't play in the same league as MGS. Or even the same country. I know a couple of people in other states that he'd get along with though.

ChrisCP wrote:

'In other news' actually old mega nobz are smaller than the AoBR nobz, and the old trukks hardy stand an inch high.

http://www.bigshoota.com/blog-photos/trukk-compare.jpg
feth all difference from where I sit, it's mostly in the rails and boarding ramps. The difference is negligible.

bsohi wrote:MGS, your dictation that this is how people "should" play smacks of egoism. You've no ability at all to dictate how things should be done. The models were supplied with the bases they were supplied with. The old Avatar is the size of the old Avatar, and that's really it. The rules don't say to measure LOS to imaginary points above peoples head.

My Cadian HW teams are all on kneeling legs, but I modeled one on standing legs. Should I then draw LOS to his crotch, because he's only supposed to be that tall?

I mean, you're free to measure to imaginary points all you like, but don't try and come riding in on a high horse proclaiming that that's how it 'should' be done.

I am not seeking to dictate, I was saying that people would have an expectation. That there should be a benchmark in order to facilitate fair play. Or we'll see entire units of kneeling tau, or perhaps entire armies of space marines 'cunningly crawling towards the enemy on their bellies'.

And can I ride in on a short horse and get the rest of you to imagine another 3 feet above where I say I am?



I apologise if what I've said comes across as overbearing or dictatorial. That was not my intent, I wanted to let the OP know there were going to be preconceptions on the part of other players, I would most certainly get chewed out by my regular gaming group for showing up with that avatar, my SM friends immediately changed to new termies when they came out and rebased a couple of old favourites in the metal collection.
I would certainly not wish to encounter a player with the mean spirit to take old square bases and use them spread out to the max distance of their corner to corner range, whilst ogryns themselves are fairly gak, I can see it being done with tyranid warriors for example. If the set of circumstances I proposed above were to happen and you fail to kill them due to a matter of millimetres, then they tilt the entire game, would you not find yourself grinding your teeth they were on those bases?

And don_mondo, let us know how you get on with taking the tiny avatar, I also want pictures of each players face a) when they see it and laugh and b) when they can't get LOS to it and frown...

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

jbunny wrote:Considering I have a friend that has the small Aviatar, and uses it in tournaments, i have not problem with you bringing it. It is after all a GW model.
As far as the model shoudl use the current base? Please show me the rules that state that? If you can't then please move on as it is nothing more than you opinion of how you feel it should be based.

Where? What tourney was it? Show me pictures of it. Show me the expression on the other guy's face when your friend pulled that language ! stunt. Or are you jusssssst talking gak...

Everyone at the multiple tournaments thought it was cool. Sorry I don't have a picture of every tournament he has ever been in just to appease a someone on the internet. You have been proven wrong, and now your are just making personal attacks against me and my friends, neither of which you have meet in person. Consider yourself reported to the mods for bad behavior. And welcome to my ignore. Have a good day.

Insaniak nicely summarized the actual rules on the subject on page 1.

I have encountered groups and events which interpret “the base the model is supplied with” to mean what it is currently supplied with, if that has changed. Personally I do think there is some validity to the idea that consistent base sizes make for a better game experience, and if I were going to field any of my old metal terminators in 40k (as opposed to Space Hulk), I’d personally rebase them onto 40mm for consistency.

All that said, referring to other interpretations/ways of playing as “beardy” or insulting other players for the way they choose to play is not appropriate, and not generally a good way to further a discussion.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

ChrisCP wrote:'In other news' actually old mega nobz are smaller than the AoBR nobz, and the old trukks hardy stand an inch high.

http://www.bigshoota.com/blog-photos/trukk-compare.jpg
feth all difference from where I sit, it's mostly in the rails and boarding ramps. The difference is negligible.

From where I sit, having played many games against both, the new trukks have more than twice the LOS profile of the old ones, and I give a small internal sigh of disappointment every time I see someone field the old ones nowadays.

Mannahnin wrote:Insaniak nicely summarized the actual rules on the subject on page 1.

I have encountered groups and events which interpret “the base the model is supplied with” to mean what it is currently supplied with, if that has changed. Personally I do think there is some validity to the idea that consistent base sizes make for a better game experience, and if I were going to field any of my old metal terminators in 40k (as opposed to Space Hulk), I’d personally rebase them onto 40mm for consistency.

Thank you, if I were to play you, despite me gaining an advantage if they were on the original bases, I'd appreciate them being on the larger ones for consistency.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jbunny wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

jbunny wrote:Considering I have a friend that has the small Aviatar, and uses it in tournaments, i have not problem with you bringing it. It is after all a GW model.
As far as the model shoudl use the current base? Please show me the rules that state that? If you can't then please move on as it is nothing more than you opinion of how you feel it should be based.

Where? What tourney was it? Show me pictures of it. Show me the expression on the other guy's face when your friend pulled that language ! stunt. Or are you jusssssst talking gak...

Everyone at the multiple tournaments thought it was cool. Sorry I don't have a picture of every tournament he has ever been in just to appease a someone on the internet. You have been proven wrong, and now your are just making personal attacks against me and my friends, neither of which you have meet in person. Consider yourself reported to the mods for bad behavior. And welcome to my ignore. Have a good day.

Consider yourself regarded as a sockpuppet account and treated accordingly.

Gwar! wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:The model should use the current base size.

This is not what the rules say.

Or are you suggesting it's kosher to use the original Avatar on it's original base, as an eldar player?

If he has the Original Avatar, then yes.

Fark yeah I've got one of those!

....isn't this topic silly? I mean it's all about how people feel playing against other people who use funny bases and then it's how the rules are law and people would feel bad if anything gets interpreted wrong...but anywho here's something for everyone to discuss:



"true-scale marines"

Here's another reason not to re-base models when the bases change - being able to use them for Fantasy as well. I bought all of my lovely Daemons back when you could mix-n-match 'em in the CSM list, and of course they came with square bases (as they were intended to be used with Warhammer Fantasy).

Nobody has ever given me a hard time about using the square bases, by the way.

Eh, sorry for being a bit snappish in my post as well, I was posting at 4am, after work.

I somewhat agree with you, that if we were meant to be playing a 100% balanced game, we'd be playing with standard base sizes etc. But we're not playing chess here, this is far from a balanced game (cruise control to win space marines vs eke out a victory necrons)

The ruleset here though is quite clear, you play with your models, assuming they are the size they actually are. The old Avatar is short, he's had a growth spurt in recent years, but when he was younger, he was a wee little tyke. And if you're playing with baby avatar, then you treat him like baby avatar, not grown up avatar.

I did the same. I have rarely found that it causes an issue, because I'm careful to place them in such a way that I don't gain extra assault distance on the drop from the square shape. That said, it still bothers me a little, and when I add more daemons to my CSM army I'm going to go with round bases.

I find all the argument over the old Avatar to be particularly silly.

Part of the strength of the Avatar is that his size and good saving throws make him both an obvious and a tough target, especially when he's had fortune cast on him.

If he's small, he can't really fulfill that role very well.

Still a bit silly to use one the size of a regular infantry model. I'd love to own one, but would never field it using Avatar stats.

Silly, sure. Giving a huge advantage to the other player that he could not possibly be forgiven for, an advantage that should have him barred from every tournament in the Western Hemisphere... not quite.