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Wow you boys don't want much do you?!

I want rail guns for for my CSM. That would do me in the next CSM codex.

As for Tau I think alot of the rule fixes would be first on the lst, as someone already said.

Make it so tau fw squads carry heavy weps

M'kraik wrote:3. Gun Drone squadrons should be Troops. Drones dismounted from vehicles shouldn't be scoring, but they also shouldn't be worth Kill Points. Clarify that they are considered part of the vehicle for these purposes.

I see potential for abuse here. If they are part of the vehicle for KPs then I'd dismount them & move them out of LoS & even if you destroy the vehicle that "part" of the unit is still alive so it's not a KP. I'd say that they only count for a KP if you willingly disembark them, but if you don't then they are treated as part of the vehicle, specifically a weapon (I.E. wrecked / explode / weapon destroyed will kill them)

I see potential for abuse here. If they are part of the vehicle for KPs then I'd dismount them & move them out of LoS & even if you destroy the vehicle that "part" of the unit is still alive so it's not a KP. I'd say that they only count for a KP if you willingly disembark them, but if you don't then they are treated as part of the vehicle, specifically a weapon (I.E. wrecked / explode / weapon destroyed will kill them)

Or just not make them anything to do with the KP? Vehicles goes you get the KP regardkless of whether the Gun Drones are alive or dead. Killing ot gun droens does nothing for you in terms of KPs either way.

Make it so tau fw squads carry heavy weps

No thanks does suite fluff or how the army works.

Wow you boys don't want much do you?!

I want rail guns for for my CSM. That would do me in the next CSM codex.

CSM are a very effective force with their current codex and 5th Ed did nothing to harm them. Tau were a weak codex anyway and 5th Ed totally screwed them over. THey need drastic work to become competitive.

Lots of our choices are simply not viable and we have the fewest amount of choices anyway (excluding Necrons I think). Whil;st even our viable choices are not as good as soem other armies core choices *cough*PLague Marines*cough*.

Tau need a drastic over haul for all these reasons.

Mr-_-Flidd wrote:Wow you boys don't want much do you?!

I want rail guns for for my CSM. That would do me in the next CSM codex.

As for Tau I think alot of the rule fixes would be first on the lst, as someone already said.

Well gee sunshine, how many high strength, low AP pieplates do you have access to? We get 1 and it won't even kill marines because it's AP 4 (technically 2 if you count AFP which only one model can take). At least 2 that I can think of off hand AND you've got cheesy psykers with lash of submission and warp time and all the other goodies that Tau don't have and never will because GW painted themselves into a corner with their fluff writing. Tau have railguns, we kill your transports and your tanks but then we stand around while your daemons and daemon princes mow down our armies...along with core choices like plague marines that we have to focus fire an entire army to off one squad while the other 4 squads get into melee.

Yeah, you're right, CSMs are so limited.

/rant.

As far as heavy weapons with FWs go, I like the idea of heavy drones being attached to squads or would that make Tau too much like Eldar guardians?

As far as heavy weapons with FWs go, I like the idea of heavy drones being attached to squads or would that make Tau too much like Eldar guardians?

That would be my concern. Hence my idea of shifting Sniper drones to troops would fullfill the same function as heavy weapons in a FW squad but fit with the Tau fluff far better.

FlingitNow wrote:That would be my concern. Hence my idea of shifting Sniper drones to troops would fullfill the same function as heavy weapons in a FW squad but fit with the Tau fluff far better.

Not sure that's any better considering that the sniper drones are well....snipers and snipers are supposed to be smaller units, in cover and hidden....

Maybe the answer is with markerlights and maybe remove counters to increase the volume of fire from a unit. I think you or someone else also mentioned something similar to the old fantasy, stand and shoot, rule; they get assaulted and they can fire into the assaulting squad without markerlight support.

I still kind of like my idea about the grenades that make assaulters lose d6" of assault move (granted it was my idea and I'd be predisposed to like it)

It will be interesting to see what GW comes up.

Yeah stand and shoot response or even the flee response from Fantasy would help and fit the fluff.

FlingitNow wrote:Yeah stand and shoot response or even the flee response from Fantasy would help and fit the fluff.

i can imagine that now

fail to attack
shoot
hi-tech stuff
FLEE!!!!!!

agnosto wrote:

Mr-_-Flidd wrote:Wow you boys don't want much do you?!

I want rail guns for for my CSM. That would do me in the next CSM codex.

As for Tau I think alot of the rule fixes would be first on the lst, as someone already said.

Well gee sunshine, how many high strength, low AP pieplates do you have access to? We get 1 and it won't even kill marines because it's AP 4 (technically 2 if you count AFP which only one model can take). At least 2 that I can think of off hand AND you've got cheesy psykers with lash of submission and warp time and all the other goodies that Tau don't have and never will because GW painted themselves into a corner with their fluff writing. Tau have railguns, we kill your transports and your tanks but then we stand around while your daemons and daemon princes mow down our armies...along with core choices like plague marines that we have to focus fire an entire army to off one squad while the other 4 squads get into melee.

Yeah, you're right, CSMs are so limited.

/rant.

I never said they were limited. Just that I want a S10 AP1 gun. Never going to happen so I'll stick to my mid range Meltas.

I agree with Dogface's original list, bar the medic drones. I fear a future in which the whole of the 40k universe has an inability to feel pain.

Wow, this was a great read. Lots of good ideas here!

@ M'kraik- Thanks for posting your ideas in particular, made the commute that much better. Pathfinders as elites (string 'em up!)...that would be different to say the least and, to be honest, I'm not sure if I could stomach it. But I do agree with your conclusions regarding FOC competition and the health of the army improving.

Rather than add comments relating to each point individually, I'll adopt a holistic approach and say this: In my opinion, Tau codex changes should be prioritized by considering those changes which will bring the army closer to its fluff, as being most important. I think this will make both players and designers happy. This includes any new units.

Tau leadership should be near the top of said list, as it is way off the fluff as I understand it (Comment #9 Tau leadership--agreed!)

Guilty pleasure (and something not discussed at length yet): Give XV8 flechette options. I see this as truer to fluff than PW's.

AesSedai wrote:Guilty pleasure (and something not discussed at length yet): Give XV8 flechette options. I see this as truer to fluff than PW's.

It'd be neat, but it'd also probably be broken as all hell. Flechette's are okay at the moment because they're only available to vehicles which can never themselves initiate an assault (with one exception, coughR'myrcough). Which means that they're a deterrence, not an offensive weapon. If you made them available to XV8s, though, I think you'd see people putting them on suicide monat suits or complex Crisis Teams and charging headlong into Green Tide and the like, since the flechette backlash would tear those units apart without ever needing to land an actual attack. Not exactly good for the game. If you limited them to triggering only on the turn that the owning unit receives a charge, that I could get on board with. I'd even be tempted to slap some on my Broadsides to make those nasty outflankers think twice.

EDIT: On further consideration, it might be more interesting to put a flechette-type option on battlesuits but instead of using the flechette rules, make it a piece of wargear that requires units assaulting the XV8 team to make a Dangerous Terrain test. In fact...that might actually be a good idea for Photon Grenades. Venomthropes do something similar so it's not unprecedented. I really like the idea of Fire Warrior squads responding to a charge with a hail of grenades.

M'kraik wrote:

AesSedai wrote:Guilty pleasure (and something not discussed at length yet): Give XV8 flechette options. I see this as truer to fluff than PW's.

It'd be neat, but it'd also probably be broken as all hell. Flechette's are okay at the moment because they're only available to vehicles which can never themselves initiate an assault (with one exception, coughR'myrcough). Which means that they're a deterrence, not an offensive weapon. If you made them available to XV8s, though, I think you'd see people putting them on suicide monat suits or complex Crisis Teams and charging headlong into Green Tide and the like, since the flechette backlash would tear those units apart without ever needing to land an actual attack. Not exactly good for the game. If you limited them to triggering only on the turn that the owning unit receives a charge, that I could get on board with. I'd even be tempted to slap some on my Broadsides to make those nasty outflankers think twice.

EDIT: On further consideration, it might be more interesting to put a flechette-type option on battlesuits but instead of using the flechette rules, make it a piece of wargear that requires units assaulting the XV8 team to make a Dangerous Terrain test. In fact...that might actually be a good idea for Photon Grenades. Venomthropes do something similar so it's not unprecedented. I really like the idea of Fire Warrior squads responding to a charge with a hail of grenades.

Or even more in line with fluff, flachette drones. It would force some nasty decisions when considering ablative wound allocation in a unit that gets shot..."Uh, I can take off my flachette drone or my shield drone...ugh!"

All the suggestions on here are great. Really points out all the flaws in the dex (which is a lot).

If the new dex doesn't have at least a few of these im not getting it xD

More weapons, more 'allies/mercaneries', more tanks.

An option to have an all suit army might be neat, if pricey. Otherwise, the fluff in the most recent Nid codex had a couple mentions of Tau that were interesting, and I wouldn't be suprised if there were options in the next dex that reflected said fluff.

First post here on dakka, I've been following this thread with interest. Not the places for intro's, but I played Tau using the previous and current codexes.

Gotta say, I love most of the suggestions on here. I'm not familiar at all with the new 5th Ed rules, and frankly it's been a bit since I cracked open a rule book period, so I might make a few mistakes.

Two things I'd like to add. One, more choices for Kroot, and two, another way of looking at Crisis suits.

One way I'd like to see the Kroot modified is that with the addition of a Shaper. one from a set list of rules, equipment, and statlines modifiers could be chosen. For example, a CC type upgrade could add +1 to S T and A, with some form of close combat weapon/pistols, Rending wouldn't be out of the quesiton either, there are some few biologic creatures that get them (Nd's, Genies to name two). This is suported by background fluff, as there were supposed to be wildy different tribes of Kroot in not only looks but abilities. Want CC Kroot? Take the CC version. Want shooty kroot? Take shooty Kroot (BS4 wouldn't be out of the question, although expensive. Natural raw talent goes a long way towards good aiming). I'm sure you get the idea.

Another, and if this has been discussed and discarded before I apologise for bringing it back up, would be to treat Crisis/Broadsides as AV 10 vehicles, which frankly is supported by the way GW treats the break between vehicles/MCs/infantry. After all, the pilot of these suits sit inside the unit and operate controls, much like what Sentinels/War Walkers/Dreads (if they weren't a corpse I mean), the JSJ special rule is essentially the same as Skimmer, and frankly they're quite large in comparison to the much smaller Stealths, which I would definitely call power armor AKA Termies. I know XV suits are supposed to operate more along the lines of power armor, but it seems to be more of a neural hardware connection rather than moving the arms/legs like a true set of power armor.

How would making the XV suits into AV 10 vehicles affect the game?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Few additional thoughts;

How about a compromise on the BS4 vs BS3 argument? When it comes to a pure statline argument, I fall into the "leave em at BS3" crowd, mainly due to the FW's being GEQ's level of training and experience. IIRC the usually fluff reason for a unit to be BS4 is it's highly experienced (Vets, Marines, etc) or possess some form of superior targeting tech/equipment (Snipers, TA's).

Instead lets make it a change to the Pulse Rilfe itself. "At ranges over 12", a Pulse Rile-equipped model has an increase to to BS of +1" So in theory at least, FW's would be at BS4 at ranges (with A1) over 12", at BS3 when under 12"and shooting in Rapid-Fire. This could justify bumping up the base price by +2-3 points per FW w/Pulse Rifles. It would not be cheap per se, but then FW's aren't exactly setup as horde style squads anyways. So 10-11 points per FW model.

Since the codex has Pulse Rifles and Carbines at the same price (and since the Carbine is regarded by most/some as being underpowered anyways) let's look at it. An adjustment to either 15" or 18" AP5 S5 Assault 2 seems to be acceptable to most. Pinning does appear to be a major gripe for a lot of folks however, the fault of which lies with the underbarrel Photon Grenade launcher a Pulse Rifle comes equipped with.

How about, instead of causing pinning, a Carbine instead caused modifiers to the oppponents BS at range. Or rather "A squad equiped with Pulse Carbines inflicts to -1BS if the equipped squad successfully makes 1/2 of their To-Hit rolls during shooting, rounding up. This effect lasts until the next friendly shooting turn, does not stack." Ex, A squad of Pathfinders make an attack against a MEQ squad. 8 PF's fire, 4 of them make the To-Hit roll against the MEQ's and so get Photon 'Naded. Goes to enemy's turn. The squad the PF's shot at suffer's the -1 BS effects until it comes back again to the PF controlling players shooting phase, which can then again make in attack against the same squad".

Frankly I'm not good enough at the math to figure if these are OTT or worth something. At first glance it doesn't appear overpowered, is definitely along the lines of fluff, and would go a long way to improving the abilities of FW's and PF's for that matter.

I agree on the all suit army. We could use XV9's from FW as Fast (like they are) and light XVs for troops choices, rid us of the 1+ on FireWarriors. I like that idea of firing into the assaulters.
We also should have new suit weapons for XV8s like a rail rifle and the earlier flechette-like gear and heavy (-er) flamer instead. A sniper drone should be available for Wargear for reasonable points but requires the wargear Spotting Laser? We should also get a remake/addition of the HQ units like give farsight 30 points of wargear, redo aun'va almost completely, Give Shadowsun upgrade to change FB to PR, Add Brightsword and give him Shield,PR,other gun, let him be in Farsight Army, and maybe XV7?

BS 4