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This is where I have to disagree, no where under the vehicle movement rules does it state you have to turn before you move, it just says you can turn for free, but that does not change the fact that the vehicle has a footprint at the start of the the movement phase, and you should only be able to move the distance from the original footprint. The rules state you can turn for free, so I can make 90 turns and it still does not change the fact I am only allowed to move a certain distance. The leap of faith, from you get free turns to I dont start measuring my movement till I have turned is kinda nutz. It says you dont lose movement for turns or wheeling on the spot, it even says you can go forward and back as long as you dont exceed its maximum move. So I would love for someone to point out where it says you dont start measuring movement till the vehicle as spun on the spot!



Valas

@valas The only problem with your idea is that its not how movement is described in the brb. For a very clear look at movement, look at the tank shock rule on pg 68. The very first thing done is to pivot the vehicle in the correct direction. Then the vehicle is moved from that point.

Beyond that, the rules in the basic vehicle movement section on pg 57 tell us that pivotiing can happen at any time, and describe exactly how to do it. They can pivot any number of times, they can even spin like a top. None of these turns reduces the vehicles movment.

How do we measure movement? We measure from the hull of the vehicle. If the vehicle spins, it uses up none of its movement...so we then measure from the hull when we move the vehicle.

At any point in its movement when a vehicle would be turning a corner (such as around a buidling) it will also gain movement as well. Its not just at the start that a vehicle can gain a little ground, any time it turns around terrain it can gain as well.

To answer your question: it tells us that pivots do not reduce movement, so we cannot start measuring movement until we actually move the vehicle.

The problem with measuring from the original footprint would be...where do you measure from when the vehicle has moved forward 1/2" and then pivots? Or move forward 2" and then pivots? Or moved forward one micron and then pivots? One quickly would need a good bit of math to determine where exactly the vehicle would be going....


Sliggoth

I'd just have to say it's all measured from the hull. I play my friend and his marines and we encountered this. He was facing one way wanted to turn and then move, we talked about the front hull bein all slopey n stuff so, we agreed that he measured his intended move from his side hull before he turned and moved.

We reasoned that this was fair since if he measured after he pivoted, he'd get an inch or two for free.

handric wrote:I'd just have to say it's all measured from the hull. I play my friend and his marines and we encountered this. He was facing one way wanted to turn and then move, we talked about the front hull bein all slopey n stuff so, we agreed that he measured his intended move from his side hull before he turned and moved.

We reasoned that this was fair since if he measured after he pivoted, he'd get an inch or two for free.

Well it isn't fair because it ignores the rules completely...

warboss wrote:
not necessarily true. if you start the battlewagon sideways at the edge of the deployment zone and pivot forward before moving (sensible if you have first turn and won't reliably get shot before moving), you get a few extra inches of quasi-movement because of the deffrolla exagerating the basic rectangular shape of the battlewagon to begin with.

You can already do that without a deffrolla and with nearly every vehicle, and this move doesn't come for free because the BW isn't 14 all around and first turn ain't guarantueed.

There is indeed some risk attached to the first turn pivot and move tactic. However, in 5th edition one knows with a 5/6th probablity if one is going first or not. Also, with a KFF even the side armor of a BW is not at all an easy target.

So its quite possible that a player whose entire army is built around the concept of closing as fast as possible might well want to use this tactic. After all, if one is risking part of ones army in something as fragile as ork truks then taking a minor risk on exposing side AV 12 isnt going to be a problem.

Especially if this risk gives the BW units an extra 3ish" reach on the first turn. Turning a third turn ram into a second turn deff rolla ram would be worth a considerably higher risk than this. The whole focus of many on ork player is to extend the range of their threat umbrella, force their opponent to deploy back in a smaller foot print and deploy in less advantageous locations. Ideally force them to keep their whole army in reserve so that it can then be destroyed as it enters play.


Sliggoth