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Karon wrote:I noticed my points costs were off (well, just the wargor, but by like 20 points, and I just didn't understand why) and I re-thought a few things, and since 8th edition is 25% Lords and 25% Heroes now, its all good whichever list I take. So I reconfigured them, and want to hear everyone's opinion on which is better.

LIST 1 [MOAR AMBUSH]

LIST 2 [MOAR MAGIC]

Also, can y'all see the one of these actually winning a game? I've been second guessing myself a bit.

I think I like the one with extra ambushers, given the upswing in shooting we're looking at in 8th. My questions for this army (either list of it) mostly involve unknowns from 8th:

1. More Magic? It seems really unclear how magic is going to work, except that I'm getting the idea that a single level 4, while expensive, could also be superior to multiple level 2's, with the +4 cast deal. IF magic is somehow still viable then #2 deserves another round of contemplation. As is, I think the extra ambushers is the way to go.

2. More Ranks? I think you're probably good taking advantage of the hammer aspect of gor's glasshammer aspect, but I wonder if taking at least one big unit to function as a stubborn holder OR to beat the other dude's big stubborn ranked unit is going to be required ... Who knows if that stubborn rule is actually in there (hoping not!), or how game-busting it'll be.

3. Less Skirmishers? What are you thinking that your raiders are going to do? Particularly with the powernerf to skirmishers? At some point I decided that I liked ranked ungors better for my ambushing / diverting needs, and in 8th they should benefit from the buffs to ranked units that skirmishers are denied. AND if panic is toned down - BSB allows reroll within X" and such - then warhounds might be trustworthy-ish. Also useful for powering into all that gunline

- Salvage

Mhm, I see. 8th really just pisses me off. Too much confusion, to much uncertainty, too many huge decisions.

#1: The lvl 4 is out of the question I think, I love my beastlord build too much. Honestly, the nerf to magic isn't as bad as I first thought if I only have 2 level 2's.

I don't know, with the nerf to magic, I may need LESS magic defense.

I agree, if I was to play a game in 7th edition, the list with the second shaman would be better, but with what 8th looks like the second ambushing unit is better.

I was also heavily contemplating the more ranks thing, I don't know. But then I remembered I had the jabberslythe, Cygor, harpies, and two units of ambushing gors to help my relatively small blocks.

#3: Honestly, if I am correct, the new skirmisher rules just puts them into a fixed formation (the formation regular blocked units have, except they can be 1" apart) while keeping the -1 to hit, etc. So really, with the way I'm using the ungors (IE: to die) then there really is no reason not to use them as raiders.

The main thing I have to decide is whether to keep the ungors as regular ungors w/ HW/shield, or to make them raiders. Which would be better?

Hmmm.

L: Beastlord - Heavy Armour, Stonecrusher Mace, Ramhorn Helm, Gnarled Hide, Shield = 249 (General)
H: Wargor – Battle Standard Bearer, Pelt of the Shadowgave, Shield, Great Weapon = 161
H: Bray Shaman - Level 2, AHW, Stone of Spite, Dispel Scroll = 162

C: 17 Gors – Additional Hand Weapon, Full Command = 161 (6X3) (Bray Shaman)
C: 18 Gors – Additional Hand Weapon, musician, standard = 159 (6X3)
C: 18 Gors – Additional Hand Weapon, Musician, Standard = 159 (6X3)
C: 12 Gors - Additional Hand Weapon, Musician = 101 (6x2) *Ambushing*
C: 12 Gors - Additional Hand Weapon, Musician = 101 (6x2) *Ambushing*
C: 6 Ungor Raiders, Musician = 39
C: 6 Ungor Raiders, Musician = 39
C: 6 Ungor Raiders, Musician = 39


S: 16 Bestigors – Full Command, Warbanner = 247 (Beastlord & BSB) (6x3)
S: 6 Harpies - Scouts = 84

R: Cygor = 275
R: Jabberslythe = 275

4 Power Dice, 3 Dispel Dice, 1 Dispel Scroll, 1 Arcane Bomb

2250 Points

L: Beastlord - Heavy Armour, Stonecrusher Mace, Ramhorn Helm, Gnarled Hide, Shield = 249 (General)
H: Wargor – Battle Standard Bearer, Pelt of the Shadowgave, Shield, Great Weapon = 161
H: Bray Shaman – Level 2, AHW, Dispel Scroll = 137
H: Bray Shaman - Level 2, AHW, Stone of Spite = 137

C: 17 Gors – Additional Hand Weapon, Full Command = 161 (6X3) (Bray Shaman)
C: 17 Gors – Additional Hand Weapon, Full Command = 161 (6X3) (Bray Shaman)
C: 18 Gors – Additional Hand Weapon, Musician, Standard = 159 (6X3)
C: 12 Gors - Additional Hand Weapon, Musician = 101 (6x2) *Ambushing*
C: 6 Ungor Raiders, Musician = 39
C: 6 Ungor Raiders, Musician = 39
C: 6 Ungor Raiders, Musician = 39


S: 16 Bestigors – Full Command, Warbanner = 247 (Beastlord & BSB) (6x3)
S: 5 Harpies - Scouts = 70

R: Cygor = 275
R: Jabberslythe = 275

6 Power Dice, 4 Dispel Dice, 1 Arcane Bomb, 1 Dispel Scroll

2250 Points

This way, when my raiders are shielding my Gors and Bestigor blocks, and are shot at, they will be under US5, so won't cause panic.

Oh, I wasn't suggesting you take a level 4, I was more commenting on the magic phase in general. As much as I like the Lore of the Wild, I like your beast lord build quite a bit and his Ld9 is going to still be just as important.

Beasts have access to a great selection of support troops IMO, and your choice I think will hinge upon what happens to skirmishers and if redirection is a possibility any more. That was one of the reasons I turned from raider fan to ungor supporter, the ability to divert - AND to ambush and have a ranked, outnumbering unit into some war machine or shooting unit's back. Min cost is 53 though, which takes away some flexibility in squeezing them into a list.

I still like the extra ambush list, but unsure on if I like 2x big raiders or 3x smaller raiders. The smaller units are more likely to panic bomb and drive their friend's off the table, but the big ones are perhaps unwieldy (and with the smaller ones you have another unit to ambush).

- Salvage

Oh, ok. Yeah, the beastlord is imperative to a horde beastmen list.

I understand what your saying on the Ungor VS raiders thing, but as is, all I was really using them for is to take some shooting losses, or to redirect a charge, and the raiders do all of that better.

The thing is, with the x2 big raider units, they WILL cause panic from losses, but with the smaller units, none of them can cause panic because they'll be under US5 when they take 25% losses.

Appreciate your posting, Salvage.

Yeah, I'm going to go with the x2 Shaman list for the very short time I'll have time to get a game in for 7th (since it really will take me forever to assemble so many models) and the x2 Ambush list for 8th.

I really am dreading no-guessing cannonballs to my gor blocks, as well as no partials.

Holy gak, I can lose a WHOLE BLOCK in one shot.

Edit: Oh, and by the way, I assembled the Gulavhr, Terror of Arnor model for my Jabberslythe, and it is a BITCH to assemble. At least for me, one of the wing slots was barely even indented, I had to scrape it a ton w/ my exacto knife to get it to fit, and then I had to fill it a lot with green stuff. Though, it looks really cool as a finished model.

Karon wrote:Edit: Oh, and by the way, I assembled the Gulavhr, Terror of Arnor model for my Jabberslythe, and it is a BITCH to assemble. At least for me, one of the wing slots was barely even indented, I had to scrape it a ton w/ my exacto knife to get it to fit, and then I had to fill it a lot with green stuff. Though, it looks really cool as a finished model.

If its not to late you could try pinning it!

I actually tried that, it didn't work very well, it sort of bent, and wasn't very strong, so I figured filling the gigantic gap with green-stuff would be better, and it is.