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Hmm. This coming from a guy who called the Bush war illegal because of the suspicion of WMD in Iraq (and lets not actually get into that convo) being all for declaring a violent act on Chinese owned oil rigs that would end up killing innocent Chinese workers.

Iraq never actually did anything to us and was utterly meaningless to our strategic goals. Oh, and they lied to us about the WMDs. Slant drilling into our territorial grounds is an aggressive act against the nation.

Sue China. China owns a good portion of the US. If we lost a lawsuit (and man, that'd be one all lawyers would jump on because of the payout) they'd own the rest of the US that they don't own now.

I don't think you know how international disputes of that nature actually work.

But yeah, lets take the wait and see attitude and than cry 20 years from now when we have no oil left and everyone else has taken what we should have drilled 20 years prior.

Your reading comprehension skills are really low if you missed the part about protecting a national resource specifically to avoid that.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Problem is he is only selecting a FEW locations to drill when we should be drilling wherever possible that has oil.

No. We really shouldn't. Thats a strategic resource that gains in importance every day, but is utterly worthless to us right now. There isn't enough oil stateside or on our shelf to have a meaningful impact on our economy or security for more than a scant few years. It's best left for when it will actually matter and oil is 32 dollars a gallon.

What part of "The Chineses are already exploring" are you not getting here Shuma?

What part of "Sue them or blow up the platforms slant drilling under our territory" are you not getting here Frazzled?

What part of "now you're spouting such insane drivel even frazzled thinks you're going off the deep end? are you not getting here Shuma. You going to start a nukewar over slant drilling?

You have to be pretty daft if you think that it would come to that over the reds attempts at slant drilling the edges of our continental shelf to get a miniscule amount of oil. Its nice that you finally acknowledged something I had said three times previous though.

Goldstargoodjob!

Now you're not even maintaining coherency. All I have to say is, welcome to my world!

The Chinese already are doing this. Now they don't have access to all areas, but thay have access to some of the richest beds via Cuba and off territorial waters.

Now you're not even maintaining coherency. All I have to say is, welcome to my world!

The Chinese already are doing this. Now they don't have access to all areas, but thay have access to some of the richest beds via Cuba and off territorial waters.

If I didn't think you were trolling me I would think that you just hadn't been reading my posts. Since you have far better reading skills than fateweaver I'm fairly certain you're just ignoring the parts where I stated that I was favorably aligned with the idea of forcing them to stop.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Now you're not even maintaining coherency. All I have to say is, welcome to my world!

The Chinese already are doing this. Now they don't have access to all areas, but thay have access to some of the richest beds via Cuba and off territorial waters.

If I didn't think you were trolling me I would think that you just hadn't been reading my posts. Since you have far better reading skills than fateweaver I'm fairly certain you're just ignoring the parts where I stated that I was favorably aligned with the idea of forcing them to stop.

My reading skills are very good thank you.

Just because I choose to purposely rile you and Dogma and a few others up doesn't mean my reading skills are poor.

I was reading at the college level in 5th grade so I think I can read the drivel that you post (although perhaps it's more to do with your writing skills than my reading comprehension).

ShumaGorath wrote:
Most oil spills are the product of burst pipelines or damaged transport ships. The big issue with platforms is the simple risk of pipeline damage.

That's because (American, but certainly not solely so) pipeline laying companies are a) conservative as heck and thereby unwilling to apply new technology, and b) not really interested in making a good pipeline, but only in getting the job done on time (because there's huge bonuses for that).

ShumaGorath wrote:

Now you're not even maintaining coherency. All I have to say is, welcome to my world!

The Chinese already are doing this. Now they don't have access to all areas, but thay have access to some of the richest beds via Cuba and off territorial waters.

If I didn't think you were trolling me I would think that you just hadn't been reading my posts. Since you have far better reading skills than fateweaver I'm fairly certain you're just ignoring the parts where I stated that I was favorably aligned with the idea of forcing them to stop.

I caught that. I just didn't believe it.
Ok I can't help myself and may have to suspend myself again from OT for saying it but,
"ARE YOU ON CRACK?"

You want to get some tens of millions of US citizens and a hundred million or so (just guestifying) Chinese very dead to stop slant drilling?
I must restate.

It shocked me too seeing Shuma being all in favor of attacking someone.

Here I been thinking he's one of those hippie types that thinks the best solution is a peaceful solution. Always.

I think time just came to a halt.

You want to get some tens of millions of US citizens and a hundred million or so (just guestifying) Chinese very dead to stop slant drilling?
I must restate.

You reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy suck at anticipating how nations will react to things. China would not nuke us, china would not attack us. If we can successfully make the case that the chinese are stealing our national resources than they would have a very thin case internationally at all.


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It shocked me too seeing Shuma being all in favor of attacking someone.

Here I been thinking he's one of those hippie types that thinks the best solution is a peaceful solution. Always.

I think time just came to a halt.

I think I've said it a few times before. You people have absolutely no idea what my political stances are. You just pretend i'm a pocket liberal because its difficult for you to do anything but rage against socialists like how the good hannity tells you to do.

ShumaGorath wrote:

You want to get some tens of millions of US citizens and a hundred million or so (just guestifying) Chinese very dead to stop slant drilling?
I must restate.

You reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy suck at anticipating how nations will react to things. China would not nuke us, china would not attack us. If we can successfully make the case that the chinese are stealing our national resources than they would have a very thin case internationally at all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

It shocked me too seeing Shuma being all in favor of attacking someone.

Here I been thinking he's one of those hippie types that thinks the best solution is a peaceful solution. Always.

I think time just came to a halt.

I think I've said it a few times before. You people have absolutely no idea what my political stances are. You just pretend i'm a pocket liberal because its difficult for you to do anything but rage against socialists like how the good hannity tells you to do.

You seem to think China would obey like a good country and not retaliate against the US in some matter. You MUST be a pocket liberal.

Hmm, there is that Hannity name again. Funny how I don't listen to him but still rally against socialism because it's not what our country was founded on and to become socialist would basically make the Constitution and the Bill of Rights obsolete.

I really should listen to Hannity or Glenn Beck. As much as Shuma talks about them they must be some great men.

suck at anticipating how nations will react to things. China would not nuke us, china would not attack us. If we can successfully make the case that the chinese are stealing our national resources than they would have a very thin case internationally at all.

1. How'd that work out for Tibet?
2. You said using force. Are you not familiar with the definition of force? Do you really wanna play the Letsescalateconfronatation until everybod's dead over...slant drilling?

Maybe he intends to scare them away with water balloons or super soakers.

Although it would still be construed as a violent act.

You seem to think China would obey like a good country and not retaliate against the US in some matter. You MUST be a pocket liberal.

I'm just going to stop responding to you at this point. You have absolutely no idea how international politics or economics work and I feel like i'm arguing with a kid im babysitting.

1. How'd that work out for Tibet?

Who cares. It's irrelevant.

2. You said using force. Are you not familiar with the definition of force? Do you really wanna play the Letsescalateconfronatation until everybod's dead over...slant drilling?

Yes, because the slippery slope of military escalation doesn't work that way. They would likely take their case to the united nations and would be uppity pricks for years about it, but honestly they are uppity confrontational pricks already so I don't really care. As long as we follow all due legal recourse before we come to the final option of military force than escalation can and most likely would be avoided. If the chinese are in the wrong than they would understand that fact, even if it bites at their craw to have something done about it.

Fateweaver wrote:Maybe he intends to scare them away with water balloons or super soakers.

Although it would still be construed as a violent act.

Not water balloons. Thats hot Gulf Coast waters. They'd welcome water balloons to cool off.

ShumaGorath wrote:

You seem to think China would obey like a good country and not retaliate against the US in some matter. You MUST be a pocket liberal.

I'm just going to stop responding to you at this point. You have absolutely no idea how international politics or economics work and I feel like i'm arguing with a kid im babysitting.

1. How'd that work out for Tibet?

Who cares. It's irrelevant.

2. You said using force. Are you not familiar with the definition of force? Do you really wanna play the Letsescalateconfronatation until everybod's dead over...slant drilling?

Yes, because the slippery slope of military escalation doesn't work that way. They would likely take their case to the united nations and would be uppity pricks for years about it, but honestly they are uppity confrontational pricks already so I don't really care. As long as we follow all due legal recourse before we come to the final option of military force than escalation can and most likely would be avoided. If the chinese are in the wrong than they would understand that fact, even if it bites at their craw to have something done about it.

You give China way too much credit.

How is that whole "must obey international laws thing" working for the men and women killed by Yemenese and Iraqi terrorists. I don't see Iraq obeying international laws regarding terrorism.

I understand that you are THINKING that China will obey like a good kid obeys his parents but neither one of us can assume correctly what China would do. We can make educated guesses but until you, Shuma, go to China and interview those that matter and ask them what they (China as a whole) would do if we tried to sue China or declare war on them you can't prove one way or the other that China would not retaliate in some form or other, UN sanctions and all that be damned.

JEB_Stuart wrote:I think they should grant it tacit approval, nothing enthusiastic, and let the left tear at itself in infighting...

That would be an Republican move from a decade ago or more. With today's republicans (aka idiots) I suspect they'll do their best to obstruct it on general principle.

ShumaGorath wrote:

here's where you're wrong. It won't be there. it will have already been pumped out.

Remember when I said I advocated military and legal means to stop the drilling? Its a tactical and strategic resource. Blow up the slant drilling operations after giving sufficient warning if all legal recourse fails.

yep. The enviro record on rigs is actually very good and gobs better than the competition.

Again the issue of preserving is now irrelevant. They are being explored as we speak.

Most oil spills are the product of burst pipelines or damaged transport ships. The big issue with platforms is the simple risk of pipeline damage.

I hold my mind open to be convinced by rational argument that a serious military confrontation with the world's no.2 and 3 nuclear powers is a good idea, while the COTW is already overstretched in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Just don't send your missiles over our heads, go the other way round.

If Cuba sells drilling rights to China what is that to do with the US?

Drill your own oil.

ShumaGorath wrote:China would not nuke us, china would not attack us. If we can successfully make the case that the chinese are stealing our national resources than they would have a very thin case internationally at all.

It is unlikely that we would suffer any form of military reprisal, but that doesn't protect us from the economic control that China can exert via bond purchases, or the lack thereof. The real issue here is one of risk versus reward, and the instigation of a military conflict over slant drilling is a significant risk, with minimal reward.


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Fateweaver wrote:
How is that whole "must obey international laws thing" working for the men and women killed by Yemenese and Iraqi terrorists. I don't see Iraq obeying international laws regarding terrorism.

Neither Iraqi, nor Yemeni terrorists are state supported.

ShumaGorath wrote:I think I've said it a few times before. You people have absolutely no idea what my political stances are.

Robo-facsist?

Orkeosaurus wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:I think I've said it a few times before. You people have absolutely no idea what my political stances are.

Robo-facsist?

Almost!

It is unlikely that we would suffer any form of military reprisal, but that doesn't protect us from the economic control that China can exert via bond purchases, or the lack thereof. The real issue here is one of risk versus reward, and the instigation of a military conflict over slant drilling is a significant risk, with minimal reward.

Hence the fact that I've stressed that being the final option after all legal channels are exhausted.

Well, if everything goes to plan we should have a few billion barrels of oil going spare in a few years.

Hey, they could be yours - all you have to do is look the other way if we carrier-strike Buenos Aires. Problem solved.

/tongue firmly in cheek

Orlanth wrote:If Cuba sells drilling rights to China what is that to do with the US?

Drill your own oil.

Slant drilling Orly. The wells are actually drilled in US territory (also called directional driling). Its time honored Texas tradition

RE:Frazzled

We should conduct off-shore drilling in oil shale deposits. That way, we harm nothing other than rocks, deers and rednecks.

And we can avoid needless fail pictures like this:

WarOne wrote:We should conduct off-shore drilling in oil shale deposits. That way, we harm nothing other than rocks, deers and rednecks.

And we can avoid needless fail pictures like this:

That isn't a slant drilling platform?

Albatross wrote:Well, if everything goes to plan we should have a few billion barrels of oil going spare in a few years.

Hey, they could be yours - all you have to do is look the other way if we carrier-strike Buenos Aires. Problem solved.

/tongue firmly in cheek

You're just mad that the faulklands didn't have any oil after all that posturing.

speaking of which
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/7544039/Warning-over-anti-British-protests-in-Argentina.html

Frazzled wrote:

Orlanth wrote:If Cuba sells drilling rights to China what is that to do with the US?

Drill your own oil.

Slant drilling Orly. The wells are actually drilled in US territory (also called directional driling). Its time honored Texas tradition

No problem with that if the rig itself is in the correct waters. What China and Cuba are doing is legal and smart.

It's up to the US to drop their own rig now on the same reservoir from their own waters. So long as you don't hit the chinese pipe while drilling you are golden.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Albatross wrote:Well, if everything goes to plan we should have a few billion barrels of oil going spare in a few years.

Hey, they could be yours - all you have to do is look the other way if we carrier-strike Buenos Aires. Problem solved.

/tongue firmly in cheek

You're just mad that the faulklands didn't have any oil after all that posturing.

One of several sites found no oil. Also with Gordon Brown in charge it pays to find no oil now. Rumour has it he even considered caving in to Argentina to get on Obama's good books. Deluded little tit.

Frazzled wrote:speaking of which
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/7544039/Warning-over-anti-British-protests-in-Argentina.html

Nice double helping of racism from Argentina, laughable because they are quite craven. Make noises, molest tourists, hate our people, but fill their knickers at the thought of stepping on the islands if squaddies are there, even though they outnumber us considerably.
Gurkhas, Paras, oh caramba where are our mothers.
At least when Hitler and the Kaiser spewed their bile their people had the balls to back it up, not that it did anyone any good.

Orlanth wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Orlanth wrote:If Cuba sells drilling rights to China what is that to do with the US?

Drill your own oil.

Slant drilling Orly. The wells are actually drilled in US territory (also called directional driling). Its time honored Texas tradition

No problem with that if the rig itself is in the correct waters. What China and Cuba are doing is legal and smart.

No that is very very wrong actually. You can't trespass on land that you do not own or have rights to enter. Thats how is works.

Legal slant drilling. I have right to lot A. I also have rights to lot B. TO save money, enviro or technology purposes I drill in lot A a well that enters lot B

Illegal slant drilling. I have right to lot A but someone else has rights to lot B. I drill a well laterally into lot B.

Second variant and more common now-only ilegal depending on jurisdiction.
reserves are linked in Lot A and Lot B. I drill well in lot A. Hippy tree huggers do not permit drilling in Lot B. If I drill in lot A I get all the reserves. Hippy tree huggers
shrug and and smoke a joint in front of their Chavez alter (ok the last part is not entirely true. Its justa poster). Sweet!

Both variants are occurring. Hence why you need to drill. If we don't its irrelevant. Someone else will get those treserves and likely do so in an environmentally less friendly manner.