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Thanks for the feedback and for reminding me about the flechettes/piranha squadron debate.

I may make the DP standard on the piranhas to simplify things. Easier than rewriting the rule. I'll think on it.

About the -1 BS when moving. I am using this as a very realistic balancing mechanism because of how much both the vehicles and markerlights have been improved. It just feels right, something moving faster than normal should suffer a penalty to accuracy.
Before you get to worried, I have patterened this in the whole codex. Slow vehicles are BS 4 and fast vehicles are BS 3. When you add in the landing gear this makes the army feel right. Do you follow?

Pls keep the feedback coming in. Every question helps me to improve the rules, thanks.

A lot of it seems very OP.

I mean, what is their weakness exactly? They'll out shoot any shooty army and any CC army will have to find it's way across the board vs an army with so many transport cracking weapons it's mad. I mean, a team of Broadsides and a tank will destroy 4 transports a turn. God forbid it's poor dark eldar transports where your standard troops would peel them apart.

Kroot have gotten actually good in combat which means your tau are really VERY strong.

Oh but vectored thrusters will make all those close combat people scream.

meh :/ gotta give us something right? the squad thats going after the vehicle probably just wiped out half of our army in close combat...

mythological wrote:

Oh but vectored thrusters will make all those close combat people scream.

meh :/ gotta give us something right? the squad thats going after the vehicle probably just wiped out half of our army in close combat...

QFT!

@ Focusedfire; the -1BS doesn't make sense on my end because the multitracker is more of the vehicles AI helping to compensate for the drift of moving at over 70 KP/H, do you get what I am saying? Although the recoil absorbing things seem to be very good, would you put that at about 10 points?

@ lunarman; you musn't be a Tau player than, as unless you play guard, all shooting armies have trouble of keeping anything at arms lengths for more than 2 turns, especially with 5th edition cover, however this isn't the place to argue about it.

lunarman wrote:A lot of it seems very OP.

I mean, what is their weakness exactly? They'll out shoot any shooty army and any CC army will have to find it's way across the board vs an army with so many transport cracking weapons it's mad. I mean, a team of Broadsides and a tank will destroy 4 transports a turn. God forbid it's poor dark eldar transports where your standard troops would peel them apart.

Kroot have gotten actually good in combat which means your tau are really VERY strong.

There are still many weaknesses within this fan-dex. I am modeling the Tau to represent their small empire, so lower overall model count, no offensive psyker capabilities, and no power weapons are just some of the weaknesses. Kroot units may only be marginally better because of smaller overall unit size and definitive command structures are going to prevent rules abuse in list building.

BTW, 3 Broadsides and a Hammerhead can already take out 4 transports in a turn. In a game where you can face 20 transports, those 4 per turn have become just about mandatory for the Tau. Ya gotta love codex creep, driving GW sales through these tough economic times.

Krellnus wrote:@ Focusedfire; the -1BS doesn't make sense on my end because the multitracker is more of the vehicles AI helping to compensate for the drift of moving at over 70 KP/H, do you get what I am saying? Although the recoil absorbing things seem to be very good, would you put that at about 10 points?

Am thinking of having recoil reduction as standard issue/ already included in the vehicle price. D-Fish with improved Burst Cannon, BS 4, Landing Gear, Recoil Reduction, Sho'kara'dao for 70-75 points. Price does not include drones or other secondary weapons systems

Think of the new advanced stabilization system for what it is. A system that allows you to fire your weapons when you would not normally be able to do so. Remember that the units taking these will already be BS 4 and able to fire S 5 defensive weapons. Then look at the new markerlight systems and you can see that this is an elegant method of balancing the army that has a very real feel to it. This encourages inter-unit cooperation and tactical decisions in game that make the army follow its fluff and adds flavor.


I finally figured out the primary ability of the Kroot Shaman. It is called Psychic Stalker. Any model using a Pyschic ability to attack the Tau when within 18" of a Kroot Shaman will recieve a wound on a d6 roll of 4+. No saves maybe taken against this wound.

What do you think?

focusedfire wrote:

Krellnus wrote:@ Focusedfire; the -1BS doesn't make sense on my end because the multitracker is more of the vehicles AI helping to compensate for the drift of moving at over 70 KP/H, do you get what I am saying? Although the recoil absorbing things seem to be very good, would you put that at about 10 points?

Am thinking of having recoil reduction as standard issue/ already included in the vehicle price. D-Fish with improved Burst Cannon, BS 4, Landing Gear, Recoil Reduction, Sho'kara'dao for 70-75 points. Price does not include drones or other secondary weapons systems

Think of the new advanced stabilization system for what it is. A system that allows you to fire your weapons when you would not normally be able to do so. Remember that the units taking these will already be BS 4 and able to fire S 5 defensive weapons. Then look at the new markerlight systems and you can see that this is an elegant method of balancing the army that has a very real feel to it. This encourages inter-unit cooperation and tactical decisions in game that make the army follow its fluff and adds flavor.


I finally igured out the primary ability of the Kroot Shaman. It is called Psychic Stalker. Any model using a Pyschic ability to attack the Tau when within 18" of a Kroot Shaman will recieve a wound on a d6 roll of 4+. No saves maybe taken against this wound.

What do you think?

Perhaps you are right, and I did jump the gun a little bit. With the Kroot Shaman, are you going to allow Kroot Squads to take a Shaman and a Shaper or only one of the two? If the latter, than how would you propose the Shaper is worth taking if he shares the same statline as a Shaman? Also, before I posted, I was not aware that you were making devilfish BS4.
P.S. Is it ok if we post our own ideas for your fandex here, or will you start a new thread? Just asking before I post.

@Krellnus- Feel free to post ideas but please be fore-warned that the majority of the Fan-dex is set. I have a few unit and weapon options that I am attempting to finalize, hopefully, with yours and others here help. I am mainly looking for feed back on these last few things before I assemble and playtest the fan-dex as a whole army. From there it will be points tweeking. If you feel that your ideas will clash with these goals then I will be happy to join in on another Tau brainstorming thread(You won't believe the number of great ideas I've dropped in the effort to balance this fan-dex.

Now, as to recap the units that I am currently looking for feedback on:

Deciding on whether the Ethereals will be outside the FoC or not. I am leaning towards them being outside the FoC but necessary to unlock certain builds like the alien auxilla build. The ethereal is getting a Retinue of rail rifle equipped fire caste that also have communication/markerbeacon abilities and unit wide shielding. What do you think? Inside the FoC or outside? Any other changes you ould like to see?

Access to the Kroot Shaman will be unlocked by the Master Shaper much the same as access to more than 2 units of kroot. The master shaper will be able to take a Krootox or 2 hounds and may deploy with any kroot unit. If the Master shaper is taken then each unit of kroot may take a shaman. This is a little rough but I hope that you get the idea. The Shamans rifle will have the witchblade ability and that as long as the shaman is alive the unit may regroup. How does this sound?

Kroot Stalkers will have Fleet & Infiltrate while the Koot Hunters have Slow and Purposeful & Scout. All Kroot will have Stealth, Move Through Cover, and Stubborn USR's but will NOT get furious charge. Still deciding on if some of these abilities come from master shaper or units come with the ability just because of the units nature. If is natural part of unit then points may have to go up by +1 or +2. Am leaning towards the their abilities being based on race and unit type because it is simpler. Your thoughts?

Now for a couple of weapon questions:

I have come up with an optional photon cluster seeker missile that is: S5 AP- Heavy3, Blast and has the new Photon rule that slows units down by making them go through difficult terrain for a turn.
Would you rather have a missile like the Photon cluster or a simpler Napalm seeker that let you drop flame templates on any marked unit?

The Hammerhead Main guns have both been updated but I would like to know:
Which would you like more for the Hammerhead? Do you want them to get:
A) Double Railgun option
B) To get the lance rule
C) To get a special peircing rule that lets you roll an addition d6 as a glance on the damage table whenever a 4+ is rolled for Armour penetration?

Please pick just one.

I think auto-wounding a psyker may be a bit OP; maybe making it harder for them to use their abilities within a certain radius of a shaman would be better.

-Any psychic abilities used within 18" of the shaman are negated on a 4+.
OR
-Warp tests are made at leadership 7 with any double being perils.

I think it would also be cool if they had an ability (either through the shaman or tau equipment) to disrupt deep striking; make the opponent roll 3d6 for deviation.

I think you shouldn't go overboard with the photon. It's a great idea but the slowing effect will make your opponents not want to play you (kind of like FnP). :-)

As for the hammerhead. Double railgun/ion gun is a nice idea, making them TL?
I say no to the lance.
instead of special piercing, maybe +2 (instead of +1) on the damage table to denote the heavy nature of the railgun and on a 6 to pen the shot carries through to the unit beyond the target (if any) like bolt throwers in fantasy (maybe OP though).

focusedfire wrote:Deciding on whether the Ethereals will be outside the FoC or not. I am leaning towards them being outside the FoC but necessary to unlock certain builds like the alien auxilla build. The ethereal is getting a Retinue of rail rifle equipped fire caste that also have communication/markerbeacon abilities and unit wide shielding. What do you think? Inside the FoC or outside? Any other changes you ould like to see?

I have come up with an optional photon cluster seeker missile that is: S5 AP- Heavy3, Blast and has the new Photon rule that slows units down by making them go through difficult terrain for a turn.
Would you rather have a missile like the Photon cluster or a simpler Napalm seeker that let you drop flame templates on any marked unit?

The Hammerhead Main guns have both been updated but I would like to know:
Which would you like more for the Hammerhead? Do you want them to get:
A) Double Railgun option
B) To get the lance rule
C) To get a special peircing rule that lets you roll an addition d6 as a glance on the damage table whenever a 4+ is rolled for Armour penetration?

Please pick just one.

Well if the Space Priests get all those shiny toys, then put them in FOC of course.
I would prefer the drop flame templates on units (so long as it still ignores cover)
C) it denotes the awesomeness of the railgun, BUUUUT!, how will the Monolith's living metal rule affect this? (you don't say so i ask!)

Krellnus wrote:

focusedfire wrote:Deciding on whether the Ethereals will be outside the FoC or not. I am leaning towards them being outside the FoC but necessary to unlock certain builds like the alien auxilla build. The ethereal is getting a Retinue of rail rifle equipped fire caste that also have communication/markerbeacon abilities and unit wide shielding. What do you think? Inside the FoC or outside? Any other changes you ould like to see?

I have come up with an optional photon cluster seeker missile that is: S5 AP- Heavy3, Blast and has the new Photon rule that slows units down by making them go through difficult terrain for a turn.
Would you rather have a missile like the Photon cluster or a simpler Napalm seeker that let you drop flame templates on any marked unit?

The Hammerhead Main guns have both been updated but I would like to know:
Which would you like more for the Hammerhead? Do you want them to get:
A) Double Railgun option
B) To get the lance rule
C) To get a special peircing rule that lets you roll an addition d6 as a glance on the damage table whenever a 4+ is rolled for Armour penetration?

Please pick just one.

Well if the Space Priests get all those shiny toys, then put them in FOC of course.
I would prefer the drop flame templates on units (so long as it still ignores cover)
C) it denotes the awesomeness of the railgun, BUUUUT!, how will the Monolith's living metal rule affect this? (you don't say so i ask!)

I think what he is saying is:
Whenever a Hammerhead fires it's Railgun (Solid Shot) and scores a Penetrating hit against a vehicle, it also causes an additional Glancing hit, provided that the total armour penetration value was 14 or greater.

I think that it would be better worded like so, as it allows for things like the Wave Serpent field to still be useful. It can still get it against the serp but it needs a 6 rather than a 4+.

Here ya go, The vehicle weapons as promised.
As always, c & c will be welcome


VEHICLE WEAPONS

This section contains system rules and descriptions for the weapons available to Tau and Gúe’vesa vehicles.

Airbursting Fragmentation Projector-This weapon scatters fragmentation bomblets over a wide area. The bomblets have sophisticated proximity sensors that detonate at a height calculated to cause optimal destruction to the enemy while minimizing collateral damage.
Range 18" S 4 AP 5 Assault 1, Large Blast, Barrage, Ignores Cover

Autocannon-(Gue’Vesa Only) These weapons fire large caliber, high velocity shells at a prodigious rate. While a key tool in a planetary governors arsenal, the Autocannons extreme rate of fire creates a constant dependence upon the Imperium for ammunition. When Imperial supply convoys started being redirected elsewhere, the Tau stepped in with open trade agreements that helped to supply the neglected, and now independent, human frontier worlds with kroot gun ammunition adapted for use in the autocannon.
Range 48" S 7 AP 4 Heavy 2

Burst Cannon- This weapon is in general use by the Tau military forces, primarily within their battlesuit teams and on their vehicles. Utilizing the plasma induction technology from the Tau’s powerful and reliable pulse weaponry, the burst cannon is a multi-barreled weapon able to sustain high rates of fire. Note that when Burst Cannons are mounted on Hammerhead’s they are not twin-linked, can fire separately, and count as separate weapons systems when assessing vehicle damage.
Range 24" S 5 AP 5 Assault 3

Cyclic Ion Blaster-Designed primarily for short-ranged use against groups of infantry, the Cyclic Ion Blaster is the smallest in the Tau’s Ion weapon family. This system generates a rapid sequential stream of high-energy particles from its four barrels, which gives it a higher rate of fire at a lower strength than its larger siblings.
Range 18" S 4 AP 4 Assault 4, EMP*
*EMP- Ion weapons have regular power spikes that are characterized by electromagnetic pulses and hyper-accelerated particles. To represent the extra power of these pulses any armour penetration or to wound roll of a 6+ will count as being AP1.

Heavy Flamer-(Gue’Vesa Only)This is a larger and more potent version of the flamer that is mounted on some Gue‘vesa vehicles. The Heavy Flamer uses a mixture of volatile chemicals that burns with more intensity than its smaller cousin.
Range Template S 5 AP 4 Assault 1

Ion Cannon(Hammerhead) -Ion weapons accelerate particles by using a fluctuating electromagnetic field which produces a stable rate of fire but with variable field ionization. The field fluctuations cause powerful but intermittent pulses of hyper-accelerated particles which can penetrate the best energy shielding or armour. The Ion Cannon mounted on the Hammerhead is the largest and most powerful in the Ion weapon family and is versatile enough to be used in multiple roles.
Range 48" S 8 AP 3 Heavy 3, EMP*
*EMP- Ion weapons have regular power spikes that are characterized by electromagnetic pulses and hyper-accelerated particles. To represent the extra power of these pulses any armour penetration or to wound roll of a 6+ will count as being AP1.

Lascannon-(Gue’Vesa Only)The most powerful of the las-weapon family, the Lascannon is capable of unleashing a focused energy blast that can cut through the thickest of armour. This makes the Lascannon an effective ranged anti-tank weapon.
Range 48" S 9 AP 2 Heavy 1

Missile Launcher-(Gue’Vesa Only) The missile launcher is highly valued for the tactically flexibility afforded by its various warheads. Each time the missile launcher fires the controlling player can decide which warhead is being used, but must declare which is being fired before the shot is made.

Frag Missile- Designed for Anti-personnel purposes, Frag missiles rely less upon accuracy and more upon an area effect blast of shrapnel to wound enemy infantry.
Range 48" S 4 AP 6 Heavy 1, Blast

Krak Missile- Designed primarily for Anti-tank purposes, Krak missiles rely upon the combination of accuracy and a high yield shaped charge to pierce vehicle armour.
Range 48" S 8 AP 3 Heavy 1

Multi-Laser-(Gue’Vesa Only)Benefiting from enhanced capacitors and reinforced barrels, the multi-laser can generate a significant amount of destructive power. The multi-laser are an effective choice against lightly armoured targets and hordes.
Range 36" S 6 AP 6 Heavy 3

Plasma Rifle-Despite their tendency to explode when overheated, many races still use plasma weapons due to their strength, range, and effectiveness. The Tau have developed a more stable form of the weapon technology that foregoes a degree of strength in favour of operator safety by ensuring that the weapons never approach critical temperatures.
Range 24" S 6 AP 2 Rapid Fire

Railgun(Hammerhead)-The Hammerhead Railgun uses the same electromagnetic linear acceleration technology as the smaller broadside variant but is more flexible, has greater range, and does more damage. The Hammerhead Railgun allows for the choice of firing sabots that, either, contain specialized anti-tank or anti-personnel hyper-kinetic rounds. The Sabot’s have the following profiles:

Korst‘ka(Death Strike) Sabot-Designed to be the pinnacle of anti-tank weaponry, the Korst’ka Sabot relies on sheer kinetic force applied through an extremely dense, high-mass, hardened round. This round is so effective that it often punches through the vehicle doing as much damage upon exiting as it did entering.
Range 108" S 10 AP 1 Heavy 1, Piercing*
*Piercing-Whenever a Korst'ka round causes a Penetrating hit against a vehicle, it also causes an additional Glancing hit, provided that the total armour penetration value was 14 or greater. No Invulnerable saves may be taken against a wound caused by a Korst‘ka round if the To Wound roll is a 5+.

Ka‘era(Many Strikes) Sabot-This round contains a bundle of long, thin, ballistic rods that are bound, magnetically, to a central rod until the sabot falls away. These smaller rail shots continue down-range, fanning out to hit the target.
Range 108" S 6 AP 3 Heavy 1, Template*
*Ka’era Sabot- This round does not roll to hit. Instead, place the Template so that the narrow end is facing the Railgun and the large end is facing directly opposite in a straight line. Roll 2D6 and then subtract the firing models ballistic skill. If the total is 0 or less, do not move the Template. If the total is greater than 0, move the Template that many inches in the direction of the large edge while maintaing the straight line to the Railgun. Any models fully or partially under the templates final position are automatically hit. Also note that while it uses the Template to determine how many models are hit, the Ka'era Sabot does not ignore Cover Saves

Seeker Missiles- These are single-use remote-fire missiles that respond solely to requests from units equipped with markerlights. Seeker Missiles may only be fired at units “marked” in the beginning of the current shooting phase and as defined in the Markerlight portion of the Armoury. Because Seeker Missiles are guided and remote fired by markerlights they do not require a line of sight to their target, ignore crew shaken & crew stunned results, ignore distance traveled by the vehicle, and never count toward the total number of weapons fired by a model. The missiles are assumed to have traveled in a straight line from the model carrying the missile to the target for the purposes of determining which armour facing they strike. Seeker Missiles have two distinct warhead options with which they may be equipped. The warheads are chosen by the player prior to the battle and are as follows:

Kles’sho (High Energy)Seeker- Designed for use against enemy tanks, these seeker missiles use a two-stage high-energy warhead to penetrate vehicle armour. The warhead first detonates a shaped charge, to create a plasma jet that bores through the vehicles armour just prior to the focused detonation of a larger secondary charge.
Range Unlimited S 9 AP 2 Heavy 1

Suam‘ol(Napalm)Seeker-Designed for use against infantry units, these Seeker Missiles have a dispersal pod filled with combustible gel in place of the normal warheads. The pod is designed to disperse and ignite its contents in a concentrated area over the target. No cover saves may be taken against wounds caused by the Suam’ol Seeker.
Range Unlimited S 5 AP 4 Heavy 1, Template*
*Template- Nominate the closest model in the targeted unit as the starting point and then roll a d6 and a scatter die. If a hit is rolled, place the templates small end directly over the nominated model and the large end set to cover the maximum number of models in the targeted unit. If the roll scatters, place the small end of the template on the spot indicated by the scatter dice with the large end in a straight line with and farther away from the vehicle.

Smart Missile System-Combining AI-controlled adaptive missiles and launchers , this system allows for a choice between two distinct modes of fire. Because Smart Missiles are AI controlled, they ignore any penalties to their BS that might be imposed and use the AI’s Ballistic Skill of 3 in place of the firing models. Tau tanks will always purchase two of this system as a single twin-linked weapon system. The two modes of fire have the following profiles and abilities:

Direct Fire-When there is line of sight to the target, the player may opt to use the higher powered Direct Fire mode. Because the target is locked onto before launch, the AI focuses on adjusting both the missile and launcher for optimal range, speed, and detonation. By using the launchers magnetic locking rails as acceleration coils, setting the missiles booster to maximum, and configuring the warheads for a focused detonation; missiles fired in this mode generate significantly higher recoil and power than smart fired missiles. Direct Fire missiles follow normal Line of Sight rules.
Range 36" S 7 AP 4 Heavy 2

Smart Fire-Whether there is line of sight to the target or not, the player may use the Smart Fire mode. Because launch occurs before the target is locked onto, the system performs a pre-programmed recoilless slow launch and pop-up maneuver that allows the AI time for target acquisition. Once the target is acquired, the AI maneuvers the missile past any intervening terrain, units or cover to strike its target. Smart Fired missiles need no line of sight, ignore cover, and are not affected by Night Fighting special rules.
Range 24" S 5 AP 5 Assault 2*, Ignores Cover
*Note: Smart Fired missiles never counting as twin-linked but rather, they become assault 4 if the Smart Missile System is twin-linked.



I also redrafted the Flechettes rule and am posting it here for critique before editing it in upthread.

Flechette Discharger-Powerful clusters of reactive charges are attached to the hulls of many Tau vehicles. When enemy units attempt to assault these vehicles, the charges fire off, sending vicious clouds of high-velocity flechettes into the enemy. The effect of this is that any models that comes within 2” of the equipped vehicles hull as part of an assault on the vehicle or its squadron will be wounded on a D6 roll of 3+, with saves allowed, before resolving their attacks.

Feed back appreciated.


Edited for suggested rules revisions

The napalm took me back to playing dwarves in fantasy with the flame cannon.

I think that a vehicle mounted AFP and CIB would be a bit stronger than a suit mounted one... If nothing else, increased range would make sense.

I can see your reasoning for the death strike; however, I think it would be simpler to just add +1 to the pen roll if it meets the criteria rather than rolling more dice...

Korst‘ka(Death Strike) Sabot-Designed to be the pinnacle of anti-tank weaponry, the Korst’ka Sabot relies on sheer kinetic force applied through an extremely dense, high-mass, hardened round. This round is so effective that it often punches through the vehicle doing as much damage upon exiting as it did entering.
Range 108" S 10 AP 1 Heavy 1, Piercing*
*Piercing-For any armour penetration roll that the total value equals 14 or more, roll an additional d6 for vehicle damage using the glancing modifier. Both damage rolls apply. No invulnerable saves may bet taken against piercing weapons if the to wound roll is 4+.

Ka‘era(Many Strikes) Sabot-This round contains a bundle of long, thin, ballistic rods that are bound, magnetically, to a central rod until the sabot falls away. These smaller rail shots continue down-range, fanning out to hit the target.
Range 108" S 6 AP 3 Heavy 1, Blast*
*This is a blast weapon that only scatters in a straight line with the railguns barrel. To represent this roll a D6 for direction with a roll of 1-2 being closer to the weapon, 3-4 being a direct hit, and 5-6 being farther from the railgun. Then roll 2D6 for distance, subtract the firers BS, and apply any penalties or bonuses.

Thats a... Very Odd Range.

For the Korst‘ka round, I am happy you liked my idea! I think it could be a little more clearly worded though. I do not, however, like the idea that it ignores Invulnerable saves on a 4+. I would either get rid of that, or change it to ignoring Invulnerable on a 6 only. I also like how it doesn't stop Bjorn's Invulnerable save though!
So, my suggestion for re-wording the rule would be:

Piercing: Whenever a Korst'ka round causes a Penetrating hit against a vehicle, it also causes an additional Glancing hit, provided that the total armour penetration value was 14 or greater. No Invulnerable saves may be taken against a wound caused by a Korst‘ka round if the To Wound roll is a 6.

And yes, I know this allows AV14 to be Glanced and only suffer 1 Glancing Hit, that is intended!


For the Ka‘era, I'm not too fond of the modified Blast rule though, I feel that if you want a unique mechanic, you may as well go whole hog. Also, for a Scattershot round, a Small Blast Marker doesn't really cut it conceptually. I would replace the Blast Weapon type with a unique "Scattershot" weapon type that acts as a hybrid between how a Hellhound Inferno Cannon works and the Inferno Bombardment in apoc:

Scattershot: This round contains a bundle of long, thin, ballistic rods that are bound, magnetically, to a central rod until the sabot falls away. These smaller rail shots continue down-range, fanning out to hit the target. To represent this, when firing a Ka‘era Sabot round, do not roll to hit. Instead, place the Template so that the narrow end is facing the end Railgun and the large end is facing directly opposite in a straight line. Roll 2D6 and then subtract the firing models ballistic skill. If the total is 0 or less, do not move the Template. If the total is greater than 0, move the Template that many inches in the direction of the large edge. Any models fully or partially under the template are hit. Also note that while it uses the Template, it does not ignore Cover Saves.

@agnosto-Thanks for the feed back and glad you like the Napalm

The CIB could possibly get a boost but I couldn't justify(mechanics-wise) the change for the AFP. Also, The rest of the normal battlesuit weapons stayed the same(Not counting Broadside primary weapons) and wouldn't be right to make the exception jut for these two.

@GWAR- Thanks for the critique and improved wording suggestions.

About the Korst'ka shot, I'm probably going to use your wording here if you don't mind. Your sentence works much better and flows smoothly when spoken.
I would like to propose a compromise on the invulnerable save, though. How do you feel about, "No invulnerable saves may be taken if the to-wound roll is a 5+?".


As to the Ka'era round. I originally had planned on a template but abandoned the Idea because of the Suam'ol(Napalm)Seeker using the template and I felt that my version of the rule was overly complex.
Now I really like your version of the rule but before I switch it back to template, I would like to know something. Do you feel that two such template weapons is too much or would you consider it more of an added accent the army ?

Again, thanks for the great feed back.

focusedfire wrote:The CIB could possibly get a boost but I couldn't justify(mechanics-wise) the change for the AFP. Also, The rest of the normal battlesuit weapons stayed the same(Not counting Broadside primary weapons) and wouldn't be right to make the exception jut for these two.

I think just longer ranges are in order; much in the way of the long-barrel burst cannon that forgeworld made. 18" seems very short range for a vehicle based weapon system unless they're going to be used in place of the gun drones...

focusedfire wrote:@GWAR- Thanks for the critique and improved wording suggestions.

About the Korst'ka shot, I'm probably going to use your wording here if you don't mind. Your sentence works much better and flows smoothly when spoken.
I would like to propose a compromise on the invulnerable save, though. How do you feel about, "No invulnerable saves may be taken if the to-wound roll is a 5+?".


As to the Ka'era round. I originally had planned on a template but abandoned the Idea because of the Suam'ol(Napalm)Seeker using the template and I felt that my version of the rule was overly complex.
Now I really like your version of the rule but before I switch it back to template, I would like to know something. Do you feel that two such template weapons is too much or would you consider it more of an added accent the army ?

Again, thanks for the great feed back.

Actually yes, I do mind! I am going to set the wolves on you now! (Sarcasm if you couldn't tell!)

And yes, that Compromise seems ok!

As for the Template, No, I don't think it is too much. Guard have I think 5 different template Weapons. And it's not a "real" template weapon, it just uses the template to determine hits. It doesn't ignore cover or anything funky like that!

agnosto wrote:I think just longer ranges are in order; much in the way of the long-barrel burst cannon that forgeworld made. 18" seems very short range for a vehicle based weapon system unless they're going to be used in place of the gun drones.

You called it. They are secondary weapons going inti the drone recesses.


@ Gwar- Revisions made and edited in. I had to slightly rework the Ka'era entry.

Again, thanks to both of you. Please continue your critiques the extra sets of eyes and different viewpoints really help.


BTW, Should the Saum'ol(napalm)Seekers rule be changed to follow the Ka'era template rule?
It seems to me that doing such would cut down on confusion.

I'm probably going change it but figured I would run it by you.

Good good.

Just noticed a bit of an error on my part, it should say "Also note that while it uses the Template to determine how many models are hit, it does not ignore Cover Saves."

Just saying "uses the Template" makes no sense!

Gue’Vesa=Humans/"Imp Gaurd"? If so I'm already a big fan of this fandex. I like the seeker options, especially the napalm. In my opinion the options make seekers more viable.

For the HH Railgun option I chose "C". Broadsides cover option "A" (unless you didn't mean TL when you said double), and option "B" just doesn't sound right to me.

Making the Vespid Neutron Blaster a template weapon is a good idea. It should make Vespids better at what they're supposed to do.

I do have a question though. Are Sniper Drones having anything done to them?

Gue'Vesa are humans from conquered planets that choose to fight with the fire caste "for the greater good".

Apparently, Gue'Vesa translates (literally) into "lower being", but we don't have to tell the guard...

My thoughts. I love this stuff, however my Tau vision is more on the Tau Empire side of things and adding units.

Diversity is a key element of this I think that everything you have written is excellent, however doesn't take into effect new races that have submitted to the greater good. W ether it be the Demiurg or some other odd races I think that an almost "dogs of war" odd mix army can be formed.

Acardia wrote:My thoughts. I love this stuff, however my Tau vision is more on the Tau Empire side of things and adding units.

Diversity is a key element of this I think that everything you have written is excellent, however doesn't take into effect new races that have submitted to the greater good. W ether it be the Demiurg or some other odd races I think that an almost "dogs of war" odd mix army can be formed.

The Tau got ion technology off the Demiurg.

Krellnus wrote:Apparently, Gue'Vesa translates (literally) into "lower being", but we don't have to tell the guard...

Where'd you get that? It means human helpers according to the company that makes the game. Here's a back-up of an article written on GW's website back in 2009.
http://web.archive.org/web/20080420071331/http://uk.games-workshop.com/tau/tau-auxiliaries/

I belive he is using a tau fansites(ATT?) Tau lexicon. I think they have gone through all of the Tau background and black libray entries in an attempt to clarify what has been given for translateable to date.



BTW, Am a day or three away from cleaning up/finishing the Drones rules overview. Will post it when done, Thank you for your patience.

Hey Guys, Sorry it has taken so long.

Here are the Drone Rules:


’VESA/DRONES

’Vesa, means “helper” but are more commonly known as drones by other races and for the purposes of this Fan-dex the two terms are to be considered the same and interchangeable in use. They are independent Artificial Intelligences (AI’s) that the Tau have developed to help in all areas of the Empire including as a means to compensate for the limited number of warriors they can field in comparison to the other dominant races. The 'Vesa are Jetbikes, which makes them faster but less agile than Tau Jet-packs and their Machine Intelligences gives them an advatage when dealing some forms of psychic attacks.


DIRECT INTERFACES/DRONE CONTROLLERS

The Tau interact with ’Vesa through devices known as Direct Interfaces. Due to a slight error in translation, these interfaces have become known as “Drone Controllers” by outside races. These two terms are to be considered the same and completely interchangeable for the purposes of this Fan-dex. The ’Vesa individually can attain a level of independence, but under battlefield conditions will still require guidance from a direct interface equipped model. .

Direct Interface/Drone Controller Rules
Models equipped with Direct Interfaces may purchase drones as per the following rules:

1)Only models with a direct interface may purchase ‘vesa.
2)Each model with a direct interface may purchase up to two ’vesa unless otherwise noted in the unit description or under their unit entry in the army list.
3)If a model has a direct interface it may operate up to 3 ‘vesa. The ’vesa must maintain coherency with their purchasing model unless otherwise noted in the unit or ’vesa description.
4)’Vesa that are purchased by a model with a direct interface lose the Machine Intelligence special rule but will take on the unit type, unit special rules, and leadership of the purchasing model. Special Rules or abilities conferred upon the purchasing model by wargear or support systems will state under the items entry in the Armoury whether or not the ‘Vesa benefit from these same effects.
5)’Vesa under the guidance of a direct interface equipped model are counted as additional squad members when assessing the units casualty totals for the purposes of morale checks.
6)Independent Characters form a unit with the ’Vesa they purchase but are still able to join other units or take retinues.
7)’Vesa orphaned when their purchasing model is removed as a casualty may join other models in the unit, if these models have a direct interface and space available to accept them. If there are no models or space available then the orphaned ’vesa are removed as their default program takes them out of the battle zone and back to the rallying point.


Independent ’VESA Squadrons

The Tau have dealt with the ’Vesas limited battlefield independence by creating interconnectivity not only between Tau and ’vesa, but between the ’vesa themselves. When three or more drones are networked together there is enough sensory capacity and processing power for the drone squadron to become fully capable of prolonged operations as independent squadrons.

‘Vesa Squadron Rules
’Vesa squadrons use the following rules:

1) All ’Vesa squadrons have the Machine Intelligence Special Rule. The effect of this rule is that the Squadron will automatically pass all morale checks and, with the exception of pinning tests, ignore any abilities or powers that require a leadership test.
2) Shas’Vesa squadrons are scoring units provided that there are three or more ’vesa in the squadron and the models maintain unit coherency.
3) ‘Vesa Squadrons reduced to less than three models will begin to fall back immediately.
4) ’Vesa Squadrons may only be joined by Independent Characters equipped with direct interfaces. If joined, the squadron loses the Machine Intelligence rule and will become the same unit type as the joining IC for as long as they are joined.
5)’Vesa Squadrons falling back may not be placed into reserves by use of the Command and Control Node.
6) Shas’vesa squadrons are the only ‘vesa squadron able to be transported and may only be transported by Piranha Squadrons.


’Vesa Mounted on Vehicles

Tau transport vehicles are equipped with two weapon recesses that are designed to accept a ’vesa for each mounting in place of the optional secondary weapons. These recesses are considered to be fire points for the ’vesa and while mounted in these recesses ’vesa will fire as passengers, using there own BS.

Disembarkation and Embarkation
‘Vesa mounted on a dedicated transport will disembark and embark with their purchasing team. If the transport does not have secondary weapons installed in the recesses then matching pairs of either Shas’vesa or Mesa’eoro’vesa may be mounted in the empty recesses. If there is no longer a matching pair of these type of ‘vesa in the unit, then only one ‘vesa may be mounted in one of the recesses.

Shas‘vesa Squadrons will embark and disembark from their Piranha transports all at the same time, unless the vehicles moved Flat-out. This means that when a Piranha in a Squadron is wrecked or explodes after having moved more than 12” only the ‘Vesa it is transporting will be destroyed in the Crash.
If the Piranha moved 12” or less in the turn it was wrecked or exploded then all ‘vesa in the squadron must disembark simultaneously, in order to maintain unit coherency, and resolve as normal.


Shas'vesa-Armed with twin-linked Pulse Carbines, the Shas‘vesa are the main stay helper units within the Tau Empire. They are so common and dependable that they are used as troop units. Shas’vesa may be mounted in Tau Transport weapon recesses.
WS 2 BS 3 S 3 T 4 W 1 I 4 A 1 Ld 8* Sv 4+

Mesa'eoro'vesa-Fielded with M’kaara(Stealth) and Pathfinder Teams these ‘vesa are armed with Mesa’eoro(Markerlights) and Target Locks. The M’kaara’vesa may be mounted in Tau Transport weapon recesses.
WS 2 BS 3 S 3 T 4 W 1 I 4 A 1 Ld * Sv 4+

M'kaara'vesa-These ‘Vesa are equipped with M’kaara Sho’oni’or’es, thicker armour, and the new Coil Rifle which currently makes the M’kaara’vesa the Pinnacle of the Standard ‘Vesa Chassis design. The M’kaara’vesa ‘s thicker armour prevents them from being mounted in a transport vehicles weapon recesses.
WS 2 BS 3 S 3 T 4 W 1 I 4 A 1 Ld 8* Sv 3+

Sho'oni'vesa- Issued only to team leaders, the Sho’oni’vesa serve as a reminder of the duty to preserve the lives of the team members. Equipped with a modified version of the Sho’oni’or’es(Shield Generators) these ’vesa project an energy field that protects against ranged attacks. The effect of this field is that any non-vehicle model within 2” of a Sho’oni’vesa will receive a 4+ Inv save against any ranged or shooting attacks.
WS 2 BS - S 3 T 4 W 1 I 4 A 1 Ld * Sv 4+**

*Indicates that ‘vesa being guided by use of a Direct Interface(Drone Controller) will assume the same Leadership as the model that is equipped with the Direct Interface.

**Indicates the model has a variable invulnerabe save.


I will post the Remora 'Vesa Skimmer Rules later


Please Tell me what you think. Let me know if I've missed anything and as always C&C welcome.

Thanks

Edtied the Sho'oni'vesa rule
2nd edit to simplify the Sho'oni'vesa rules

Disembarkation and Embarkation
‘Vesa mounted on a dedicated transport will disembark and embark with their purchasing team. If the transport does not have secondary weapons installed in the recesses then matching pairs of either Shas’vesa or Mesa’eoro’vesa may be mounted in the empty recesses. If there is no longer a matching pair of these type of ‘vesa in the unit, then only one ‘vesa may be mounted in one of the recesses.

Direct Interface/Drone Controller Rules
Models equipped with Direct Interfaces may purchase drones as per the following rules: ...
7)’Vesa orphaned when their purchasing model is removed as a casualty may join other models in the unit, if these models have a direct interface and space available to accept them. If there are no models or space available then the orphaned ’vesa are removed as their default program takes them out of the battle zone and back to the rallying point.

given these two rules how do you resolve if the purchasing team does not have a Direct Interface and yet the vehicle has drones?

Lacross, I thought the same thing but assumed the "dedicated" transport to only mean those drones purchased as part of a unit will occupy the recesses. I believe the gist is that the drones belong to the squad, not the vehicle. It should be clarified unless drones may only be included on dedicated transport vehicles.

Another thing that would be nice would be to purchase additional recesses for vehicles so that the vehicle could have drones and then drones as part of an embarked unit could attach and be functional as well.... might give the humble devilfish a bit of a bump in firepower.

so, then there must be a requirement for the group to purchase the Direct Interfaces if the Transport is to use Drones?

The transport does not come with drones?

Drones from a single Piranha permanently fallback?

I'll let focusedfire answer but, IMHO, I'd just say that vehicles don't need or already come equipped with the necessary hardware to allow the drones to function properly.

Yeah, I get you with the wording on the "dedicated transport" thing and nothing about the vehicle having its own drones...