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ShumaGorath wrote:

I'm glad you've put so much work into figuring all this out. Aluah Akbar.

So we have to have a ship hijack, a hurricane, quiet entry into a port, and the successful navigation of an incredibly large ship by people likely not trained in any of its steering or navigation systems. All this then has to happen unnoticed. You're ambitious!

Please note where I said 'and a working knowledge of LNG tankers.' And it doesn't take a hurricane. Any good Nor'easter would cause them to divert and wait as a safety precaution. In theory, you could overwhelm one already waiting in harbor, if you're patient and have a skilled team.

Gwar! wrote:
<tinfoil>
BaronIveagh is really an NSA Sleeper Agent tasked with seeding ideas into the minds of potential domestic terrorists so that the FBI can watch for people trying to do these plans.
</tinfoil>

I once got to ride along with a Tiger Team and infiltrate CIA HQ at Langley. Does that count?

And I personally find the 'Deep Horizon' indecent to be an almost hilarious counterpoint to all those right wing guys that have been screaming 'Drill, Baby, Drill!" Or I would if it hadn't just wiped out 1/5 the US seafood production and started the ball rolling on a possible famine in the Caribbean.

Apparently a video camera caught some footage of the guy getting out of the SVU and he is a white man in his 40's.

... for once, I'm glad to be brown(ish) in NY.

Please note where I said 'and a working knowledge of LNG tankers.' And it doesn't take a hurricane. Any good Nor'easter would cause them to divert and wait as a safety precaution. In theory, you could overwhelm one already waiting in harbor, if you're patient and have a skilled team.

A working knowledge of a tanker sized vessel is not an easy thing to gain, nor is the experience in handling one. Tanker pilots take years to train. They would be better off attempting to overcome one already in harbor though that would be a brazen and difficult operation in one of the busiest ports on the planet (during bad weather no less!). They would likely have coast guard or local law enforcement on them in minutes. Sounds like the setup to a rather formulaic action film.

It wasn't me. Wouldn't waste the mony on going to NY, I'm not in my 40's and I would have used fertilizer like McVeigh did.

Although the first point is my reason enough not to.

Fateweaver wrote:It wasn't me. Wouldn't waste the mony on going to NY, I'm not in my 40's and I would have used fertilizer like McVeigh did.

Although the first point is my reason enough not to.

You know they track commercial fertilizers and who buys them.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Please note where I said 'and a working knowledge of LNG tankers.' And it doesn't take a hurricane. Any good Nor'easter would cause them to divert and wait as a safety precaution. In theory, you could overwhelm one already waiting in harbor, if you're patient and have a skilled team.

A working knowledge of a tanker sized vessel is not an easy thing to gain, nor is the experience in handling one. Tanker pilots take years to train. They would be better off attempting to overcome one already in harbor though that would be a brazen and difficult operation in one of the busiest ports on the planet (during bad weather no less!). They would likely have coast guard or local law enforcement on them in minutes. Sounds like the setup to a rather formulaic action film.

Is it much harder to steer a boat into a harbor than to fly a plane into a specific building? Al Qaeda had people training for years to become pilots to carry out 9/11 so it's really not all that far-fetched to imagine them figuring out how to pilot an LNG tanker.

And who says the tanker needs to be hijacked? If the pilot is in on the plot from the beginning there would be no warning.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Fateweaver wrote:It wasn't me. Wouldn't waste the mony on going to NY, I'm not in my 40's and I would have used fertilizer like McVeigh did.

Although the first point is my reason enough not to.

You know they track commercial fertilizers and who buys them.

Still, I'd never go to NY so I know it wasn't me that did it.

Is it much harder to steer a boat into a harbor than to fly a plane into a specific building?

Yes. You should probably find out what it takes to actually pilot a two hundred thousand ton tanker. Because it takes a lot more than one dude with knowledge of thrust and wheel controls.

Al Qaeda had people training for years to become pilots to carry out 9/11 so it's really not all that far-fetched to imagine them figuring out how to pilot an LNG tanker.

Good luck getting weekend lessons for piloting private hundred million dollar tankers.

And who says the tanker needs to be hijacked? If the pilot is in on the plot from the beginning there would be no warning.

Those are usually jobs that people have for a minimum of years before they are even allowed to pilot themselves. Though you're right there could be black devils infiltrating our bodily fluids as we speak. It could be any one of us.

TRUST NO ONE!

ShumaGorath wrote:

A working knowledge of a tanker sized vessel is not an easy thing to gain, nor is the experience in handling one. Tanker pilots take years to train. They would be better off attempting to overcome one already in harbor though that would be a brazen and difficult operation in one of the busiest ports on the planet (during bad weather no less!). They would likely have coast guard or local law enforcement on them in minutes. Sounds like the setup to a rather formulaic action film.

.. not really. Considering it's one of the busiest ports on the planet, and you only have to maintain control of the ship for about ten min. There are less then 20 people on board. Hit it at night, at dock?

Just by using guys I know: Ten (estimate) to get past dock security, five min to clear the ship, six to set the charges and start the gas mix, seven for ex-filtration (estimate).

ShumaGorath wrote:

You know they track commercial fertilizers and who buys them.

Which is why, of course, you steal it.

EDIT:

Monster Rain wrote:

Is it much harder to steer a boat into a harbor than to fly a plane into a specific building? Al Qaeda had people training for years to become pilots to carry out 9/11 so it's really not all that far-fetched to imagine them figuring out how to pilot an LNG tanker.

And who says the tanker needs to be hijacked? If the pilot is in on the plot from the beginning there would be no warning.

A few key members of the rest of the crew would also have to be in on it. Particularly anyone inspecting the tanks.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Is it much harder to steer a boat into a harbor than to fly a plane into a specific building?

Yes. You should probably find out what it takes to actually pilot a multi million ton tanker. Because it takes a lot more than one dude with knowledge of thrust and wheel controls.

Al Qaeda had people training for years to become pilots to carry out 9/11 so it's really not all that far-fetched to imagine them figuring out how to pilot an LNG tanker.

Good luck getting weekend lessons for piloting private hundred million dollar tankers.

And who says the tanker needs to be hijacked? If the pilot is in on the plot from the beginning there would be no warning.

Those are usually jobs that people have for a minimum of years before they are even allowed to pilot themselves. Though you're right there could be black devils infiltrating our bodily fluids as we speak. It could be any one of us.

TRUST NO ONE!

A: You clearly have no inkling what you're talking about. 9/11 Hijackers went to actual schools, not "weekend lessons." Also, they don't just let anyone walk in off the street and pilot a plane either.

B: The bodily fluids bit was straight up trolling, so no dice there. Suffice to say that you are just being obtuse or see the first sentence of statement A.

.. not really. Considering it's one of the busiest ports on the planet, and you only have to maintain control for ten min. There are less then 20 people on board. Hit it at night, at dock?

Just by using guys I know: Ten (estimate) to get past dock security, five min to clear the ship, six to set the charges and start the gas mix, seven for ex-filtration (estimate).

Couldn't they just use the chronosphere?

A: You clearly have no inkling what you're talking about. 9/11 Hijackers went to actual schools, not "weekend lessons." Also, they don't just let anyone walk in off the street and pilot a plane either.

And neither do you. Where are the schools for piloting supertankers? Also all flight schools are called schools. It's where you go to learn the lessons. Schools. They operate on the weekends.

B: The bodily fluids bit was straight up trolling, so no dice there. Suffice to say that you are just being obtuse or see the first sentence of statement A.

It was also a movie reference and a snide quip implying that your comment was hysterical or illogical.

ShumaGorath wrote:

A: You clearly have no inkling what you're talking about. 9/11 Hijackers went to actual schools, not "weekend lessons." Also, they don't just let anyone walk in off the street and pilot a plane either.

And neither do you. Where are the schools for piloting supertankers? Also all flight schools are called schools. It's where you go to learn the lessons. Schools.

The funny thing is, I do know what I'm talking about. Good comeback though. As for the bolded red bit? Google it.

ShumaGorath wrote:

B: The bodily fluids bit was straight up trolling, so no dice there. Suffice to say that you are just being obtuse or see the first sentence of statement A.

It was also a movie reference and a snide quip implying that your comment was hysterical or illogical.

My comment is also borne out by historical fact. 9/11 involved learning how to pilot a plane and getting on a plane and piloting it. What's hysterical or illogical is someone insinuating that it would be impossible for someone to learn how to pilot a LNG tanker.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Couldn't they just use the chronosphere?

Not unless we want the Coast Gaurd to send Summer Glau back in time to stop you.

ShumaGorath wrote:

And neither do you. Where are the schools for piloting supertankers? Also all flight schools are called schools. It's where you go to learn the lessons. Schools. They operate on the weekends.

You might contact the International Maritime Pilots Association, if you're really interested in lessons. Most local pilots associations can provide training under a skilled navigator.

The funny thing is, I do know what I'm talking about. Good comeback though. As for the bolded red bit? Google it.

Did, didn't find anything terrorists could make use of.

My comment is also borne out by historical fact. 9/11 involved learning how to pilot a plane and getting on a plane and piloting it. What's hysterical or illogical is someone insinuating that it would be impossible for someone to learn how to pilot a LNG tanker.

Yes, and it's easier to pilot a plane thats already near its target and all you have to do is hit something (not land). I've played a good bit of microsoft flight simulator, I could probably glide a plan into a building. Piloting a supertanker into the busiest port on the east coast AND DOCKING IT is a totally different animal.

You might contact the International Maritime Pilots Association, if you're really interested in lessons. Most local pilots associations can provide training under a skilled navigator.

What do they pilot during their training? The ships control systems, operating systems, and console systems all differ widely by make and manufacturer.

ShumaGorath wrote:

A: You clearly have no inkling what you're talking about. 9/11 Hijackers went to actual schools, not "weekend lessons." Also, they don't just let anyone walk in off the street and pilot a plane either.

And neither do you. Where are the schools for piloting supertankers? Also all flight schools are called schools. It's where you go to learn the lessons. Schools.

The funny thing is, I do know what I'm talking about. Good comeback though. As for the bolded red bit? Google it.

ShumaGorath wrote:

B: The bodily fluids bit was straight up trolling, so no dice there. Suffice to say that you are just being obtuse or see the first sentence of statement A.

It was also a movie reference and a snide quip implying that your comment was hysterical or illogical.

My comment is also borne out by historical fact. 9/11 involved learning how to pilot a plane and getting on a plane and piloting it. What's hysterical or illogical is someone insinuating that it would be impossible for someone to learn how to pilot a LNG tanker.

BaronIveagh wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Couldn't they just use the chronosphere?

Not unless we want the Coast Gaurd to send Summer Glau back in time to stop you.

ShumaGorath wrote:

And neither do you. Where are the schools for piloting supertankers? Also all flight schools are called schools. It's where you go to learn the lessons. Schools. They operate on the weekends.

You might contact the International Maritime Pilots Association, if you're really interested in lessons. Most local pilots associations can provide training under a skilled navigator.

+1 to both.

I already responded to you. I'm a clairvoyant.

ShumaGorath wrote:What do they pilot during their training? The ships control systems, operating systems, and console systems all differ widely by make and manufacturer.

Combination of simulators and real world piloting with the experienced pilot. Same basic system that guilds and unions the world over have used for years. Since LNGs aren't a very old class of ship and only produced in a few yards, there's a lot of standardization, too.

BaronIveagh wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:What do they pilot during their training? The ships control systems, operating systems, and console systems all differ widely by make and manufacturer.

Combination of simulators and real world piloting with the experienced pilot. Same basic system that guilds and unions the world over have used for years. Since LNGs aren't a very old class of ship and only produced in a few yards, there's a lot of standardization, too.

There use to be, in regards to modern navigation technologies thats not really the case. We're back around to what I said from the beginning, learning to pilot a supertanker is a different animal from a plane. There is a far smaller margin of error and far more to keep track of, especially if your intent is to dock and not just ram the shore. There are even more natural checks to intent due the the much closer relationship you would have with your instructor and the prospective companies that would be performing background checks on you while you co. on their ship.

Even then, just whats the point? The chances of you hijacking the ship silently is very low and you had better bet that an f-22 can go significantly faster than a supertanker. There's no way it would ever reach the shore. Just go with your earlier idea of a forced entry while it's docked, though your terrorists could get bored waiting for a storm and a supertanker to happen at the same time.

ShumaGorath wrote:I already responded to you. I'm a clairvoyant.

The internets are a wondrous thing.

But now you're in a deadly trap, since if you know all things then you also must know that I'm right.

ShumaGorath wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:What do they pilot during their training? The ships control systems, operating systems, and console systems all differ widely by make and manufacturer.

Combination of simulators and real world piloting with the experienced pilot. Same basic system that guilds and unions the world over have used for years. Since LNGs aren't a very old class of ship and only produced in a few yards, there's a lot of standardization, too.

There use to be, in regards to modern navigation technologies thats not really the case. We're back around to what I said from the beginning, learning to pilot a supertanker is a different animal from a plane. There is a far smaller margin of error and far more to keep track of, especially if your intent is to dock and not just ram the shore. There are even more natural checks to intent due the the much closer relationship you would have with your instructor and the prospective companies that would be performing background checks on you while you co. on their ship.

Even then, just whats the point? The chances of you hijacking the ship silently is very low and you had better bet that an f-22 can go significantly faster than a supertanker. There's no way it would ever reach the shore. Just go with your earlier idea of a forced entry while it's docked, though your terrorists could get bored waiting for a storm and a supertanker to happen at the same time.

Actually, the chances of hijacking a ship like that undetected are very good. A bunch of fisherman took over an oil tanker, stripped it of anything valuable, and left it steaming down the straits of Malacca unmanned for two hours. I think I can do better with a trained team, and better planing then 'Let's get that one!'

An aside: Only two classes of LNGs are in the same ballpark as a super tanker, and both of them are smaller by a third. Most operating on the US east coast are closer to midsized cargo ships in size. Though I admit, one of those two classes blowing up in NYC harbor would level the city for quite a distance. Unfortunately, they also would not be able to approach the idea spot, due to their unwieldy size. You're also leaving out that most of the navigation is computerized.

Also: I checked the pilots guild that managed the port of Vancouver. I'm right about how they're trained, even for the big oil tankers.

It's always good to know that in the case of a fascist takeover, BaronIveagh will be able to blow up part of New York.

Am I the only one that thinks people are insane? I mean, seriously, if the police told me that there was an unexploded device around, I'd be out of town before they saw the dust rising in my wake.

agnosto wrote:Am I the only one that thinks people are insane? I mean, seriously, if the police told me that there was an unexploded device around, I'd be out of town before they saw the dust rising in my wake.

You know your computer is an unexploded device.

So is a banana!

Gwar! wrote:So is a banana!

I wouldn't consider a banana a device, personally.

Orkeosaurus wrote:It's always good to know that in the case of a fascist takeover, BaronIveagh will be able to blow up part of New York.

I studied under Johnny Hopper.

And I have an entirely different plan for that party. New York isn't a good target unless you're looking for publicity. If you want to cripple a fascist regime that tries to set up in the US, I have a list of targets, their weaknesses, and a list of options to ensure operational success with minimum loss of life.

... though, in all honesty, I doubt I'll ever get to use it. All the worthy enemies have died long ago, or withered away as old men.

Eh. Maybe the South will Rise Again, and give me some entertainment.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Gwar! wrote:So is a banana!

I wouldn't consider a banana a device, personally.

You obviously haven't been to the good clubs then.

Gwar! wrote:You obviously haven't been to the good clubs then.

QFT. And also, you should watch for unexploded cigars!