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Corennus wrote:Saving throws are all about making sure the game is not so one-sided there's no point playing beyond the 2nd turn. It gives a player more options cause he/she knows if they charge into combat against a tooled up opponent there's a chance some of the squad surviving due to the saving throws.

Now what I do agree with is the idea that a guy hit by a low strength weapon shouldn't die by it when everything says he should survive. But then again even a Space Marine can die by a single lasgun blast if it hits him in the right place.

Looking at the To Wound chart i'm surprised you should even have to take a save, since low powered weapons against high toughness should have N/A

BRB puts Zoan's toughness at at 4, so 5+ to wound with a str 3 weapon. Guard are BS3 so 4+ to hit. and Zoans are multi wound creatures so one lasgun shot isnt gonna kill it anyway.

2nd edition had some big flaws.

A modified to hit roll, sometimes on top of a negative range modifier, then a normal armour save, with a field on top. If it was a displacer field, then you had to scatter your model immediately, which meant you could spend half of the game bouncing your model around the table. A conversion field would blind anything nearby that didn't have a helmet on.

Terminator armour was 3+ on 2d6. So if you had a basic weapon like a grot autogun, then you would wound once every 216 shots.

I think the point of a single save is, as mentioned above, a shot that gets through the best save will get through the others.

What if they made it where some units got multiple saves as another Universal Special Rule?

Their Just That Tough!: If a model with this rule opts to take its Armor Save, it may also make its Invulnerable save.

Units with TJTT: Thousand Sons, some special characters, (Maybe) Terminators (but make them more expensive)

Actually, I think it's very realistic... though not perfect, its fairly realistic while remaining simple and quick.

If you have armor that is a piece of steel covered in wood, then covered in paper- it truly does not matter whether or not the paper or wood stops a bullet- the steel is most likely going to do the job.

Then you say, "but what if the paper is on the inside and the steel outside!?"
To which I replay- still doesn't matter! If it goes through the steel, the wood and paper are only going to be coating the insides of your wound.


What I dislike is Feel No Pain.
It's the only mechanic that acts as a "second save" and if Feeling No Pain is additional protection, then I think cover should be reworked to act similarly...

It's realistic that orks get a 6+ save cause they basically don't wear armour.
Space Marines have a realistic save.
It's when you get to non-human races like Eldar and Necrons and Tyranids things get tricky.

Eldar armour should theoretically have a better save than space marine armour.
Necrons should be nearly unkillable.
Tyranids can regenerate.....

This has the workings of the same "I should take the armour save before I roll against strength and toughness, the bullet hits the armor first right?"

Corennus wrote:Eldar armour should theoretically have a better save than space marine armour.
Necrons should be nearly unkillable.
Tyranids can regenerate.....

Eldar: No, they should not. The best quality mesh armors are equivalent to light carapace armor... while Eldar mesh might be better than the human variety, they aren't going to be THAT much better without restricting movement. Which their units with a 3+ save show-- they lose Fleet.

Necrons: They already are. WBB may be faulty, but some good rolls can mean that your army just never frakking dies.

Tyranids: Most Tyranids can't.

Hi all.
As 40k game development is in the '...roll dice to see what happens, with NO reference to real world events what so ever...' zone .
Eg Its an abstract game , that uses a fictional conflict as its background.And the artificial classifications just limit the scope of the rules.

It is not a elegant and intuitive simulation , that provides straight forward tactical interactions.
If it was, it would not need so many pages of poorly concieves and explained rules!


TTFN
Lanrak.