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Lord Castellan Creed is referred to several times as a tactical genius. I believe that he even has a special ability called 'Tactical Genius.' (Although I could be wrong on that.) Now, I may be wrong, but I think the "CREEEEED" joke is a reference to Star Trek. (KHAAAAAAAN!) No one has ever stated as such to me, but it's the gist that I have picked up.

Retribution wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:ok, somebody has to actually explain that running joke to me....

If you take Creed as an HQ choice you get the "tactical genius" ability, which allows you to infiltrate ANY single unit...as in you can infiltrate a Titan

um, that picture is awesome. Who the hell is making all these things? And of course its the other guy yelling CREEEEED al la Kahn.

Moar funny;
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Creed

Retribution wrote:Moar funny;
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Creed

Hilarious, but that page actually pointed out to me that he can't make any unit infiltrate. He can make one scout. Its just a free move.

but by giving them scout you can make them outflank, still making a titan outflank, or a LR with GK termies inside of it as allied support outflank.

sorry that was OT.

i like your fluff and would love to see more. what tanks do you plan on using, or what artillery pieces? any certain weapon alignments you plan to use?

Ahhhhh.... Creed. Makes me happy

And because you can infiltrate any unit, that has led to jokes about Baneblade exploding from concealment behind a 3 foot tall bush, or a Reaver battle titan popping out of an outhouse. That's basically the joke....

And yeah, for the Gaunt's Ghosts I'm reading it Omnibus form....but I guess you're right as to the age. I think I took it the wrong way, and the other solution makes more sense.....Though, I get the feeling that it'd be a bad idea to let units as powerful as Space Marine chapters or Titan legions do whatever they wanted....Someone needs to be able to tell them what to do even if their own commanders disagree, in an operation as large as a crusade, I can't help but feel that that person would be the Warmaster.

ChrisWWII wrote:
And yeah, for the Gaunt's Ghosts I'm reading it Omnibus form....but I guess you're right as to the age. I think I took it the wrong way, and the other solution makes more sense.....Though, I get the feeling that it'd be a bad idea to let units as powerful as Space Marine chapters or Titan legions do whatever they wanted....Someone needs to be able to tell them what to do even if their own commanders disagree, in an operation as large as a crusade, I can't help but feel that that person would be the Warmaster.

Well, see, here's the thing.

Space Marine Chapters? They're made up of individuals who have decades of combat and tactical planning experience. In some cases, they've got centuries of experience doing that. They're going to find their own way to make themselves useful to the campaign.

The same goes for the Adeptus Mechanicus, given the cybernetic alterations they make to themselves.

Kanluwen wrote:

Space Marine Chapters? They're made up of individuals who have decades of combat and tactical planning experience. In some cases, they've got centuries of experience doing that. They're going to find their own way to make themselves useful to the campaign.

The same goes for the Adeptus Mechanicus, given the cybernetic alterations they make to themselves.

That is true, and probably true. They probably do know what they're doing and how they can help, but even then they may not be helping in a way the Warmaster wants. This example doesn't carry over perfectly, but I'm thinking that a good example of this in the real world would be WW2. Patton and Montgomery no doubt had conflicts of opinion with Eisenhower, and if they had been allowed to do whatever they want due to lack of oversight from Eisenhower they no doubt would have helped the campaign in some way, but they would not have helped in accordance to the overall plan Eisenhower had laid out.

I don't think that the Warmaster would have as much control over a Chapter or Titan Legion as he would over his regular IG regiments, and if he respected them he wouldn't try to 'order' them around. Most likely, he'd politely ask them to do what he wanted, and listen to their opinions if they differed from his. However, in the end....the Chapter and/or Legion would have to obey the Warmaster.

Sageheart wrote:
i like your fluff and would love to see more. what tanks do you plan on using, or what artillery pieces? any certain weapon alignments you plan to use?

Thank you! =D I'll definitely make more if it's actually decent stuff. But I had a feeling that each regiment or company would try and stay generic with all their units for the tactical flexibility that it provides. Currently, my plan for a generic line regiment has mostly basic Leman Russ Battle Tanks and Basilisk Artillery. However, each regiment also has some regimental level artillery/support which I'm thinking would be Deathstrikes, Manticores and Hydras.

ChrisWWII wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Space Marine Chapters? They're made up of individuals who have decades of combat and tactical planning experience. In some cases, they've got centuries of experience doing that. They're going to find their own way to make themselves useful to the campaign.

The same goes for the Adeptus Mechanicus, given the cybernetic alterations they make to themselves.

That is true, and probably true. They probably do know what they're doing and how they can help, but even then they may not be helping in a way the Warmaster wants. This example doesn't carry over perfectly, but I'm thinking that a good example of this in the real world would be WW2. Patton and Montgomery no doubt had conflicts of opinion with Eisenhower, and if they had been allowed to do whatever they want due to lack of oversight from Eisenhower they no doubt would have helped the campaign in some way, but they would not have helped in accordance to the overall plan Eisenhower had laid out.

That example is terrible. Montgomery and Patton's issues with Eisenhower(and each other) were due to the ways they wanted to conduct the war. Patton planned on exploiting the openings given to him, while Montgomery was responsible for the infamously terrible Operation:Market Garden.

But, that aside, Space Marines(and their commanders) are not regular infantry. They don't think like regular infantry. The best equivalent to them would be the SAS and Airborne divisions during WWII.

They're not really a force that can be employed effectively in pitched battles.
Can they do it? Oh hell yes. Do they like doing it, or is it a waste employing them like so?
Definitely.

They're best employed as shock troops deployed from orbit, or even as a spearhead unit being utilized in Rhinos to exploit an opening forced by the Guard.

I don't think that the Warmaster would have as much control over a Chapter or Titan Legion as he would over his regular IG regiments, and if he respected them he wouldn't try to 'order' them around. Most likely, he'd politely ask them to do what he wanted, and listen to their opinions if they differed from his. However, in the end....the Chapter and/or Legion would have to obey the Warmaster.

Again, they don't have to do anything. They voluntarily do it. If they feel his orders are idiotic, ill-advised, or just plain ridiculous?

They pull their support and say "Good luck with that". Very rarely will Astartes or Mechanicus support be given to crummy operations, especially if they had no stake in it to start with.

Whoa don't just throw the term Warmaster around. There's only ever one warmaster at a time (if that). He's the over military commander of the entire Imperium and they only commision the rank in dire times of need.

There's no "Warmaster" in that regards anymore.

"Warmaster" is just a title given to the overall commander of Imperial forces that are reaching Crusade levels of strength.

Kanluwen wrote:
That example is terrible. Montgomery and Patton's issues with Eisenhower(and each other) were due to the ways they wanted to conduct the war. Patton planned on exploiting the openings given to him, while Montgomery was responsible for the infamously terrible Operation:Market Garden.

Well, I think you mistook the way I was using the example. My point wasn't the differences of opinion they had with Eisenhower were similar to the differences a Space Marine or AdMech commander would have an IG commander, instead it was that like an AdMech or SM force, Patton and Montgomery had major parts of the combined Army, and that they DID have issues with Eisenhower's orders. If the Allied war effort were to succeed, the Supreme Commander needed to be able to tell them to stfu and do what they're told. Of course...that is not an OPTIMAL working relationship, and it'd be a horrible way to fight a war, but there needs to be a chain of command, and subordinate units can't go running off doing their own thing because they think their commander is an idiot.

I will concede that the actual commanders I listed aren't perfect fits for the Space Marines. You're right. Space Marines are not line infantry and are more SpecOps or Paratroopers. I just used the examples of Patton, Montgomery and Eisenhower as those three have more famous disagreements. Plus, their names are much more easily recognizable than say Major General Lee (1st commander of the 101st Airborne Division).

Kanluwen wrote:
Again, they don't have to do anything. They voluntarily do it. If they feel his orders are idiotic, ill-advised, or just plain ridiculous?

They pull their support and say "Good luck with that". Very rarely will Astartes or Mechanicus support be given to crummy operations, especially if they had no stake in it to start with.

In general you're right, but I remember in the Second War for Armageddon, the Titan Legion or Armageddon did what the planetary governor ordered them to do, even though they thought his orders were completely idiotic and would waste their talents. If they had the ability to ignore the local commander, I can't believe they wouldn't do so in this situation. This would have been a perfect opportunity to say, "You're an idiot. Good luck with your insanity, but we're out of here," instead they shook their heads, and did a suicide charge into Ork lines.

Reading IA: The Taros Campaign right now and it gives a perfect example. The Raptors were given an "order" to take out a dangerous missile silo before the invasion began. Which of course they did with no problem. Then the Campaign commander "ordered" them to be a diversionary force. Raptor's captain was like "diversionary force? we're frikkin Space Marines. We're going on the spearhead of the main advance".
Campaign Commander was like "alright then, I guess Raptors are the spearhead then".
Last thing you want is 200 SMs who pledged their support to you taking off because they don't like the orders you gave.

The missile silo is an example of shared issues.

The Raptors couldn't get close enough to the planet to deploy their forces from the Battlebarge(which would have been vulnerable to the silo's payloads of surface to orbit weaponry) with the silo operational.

I don't even know if your arguing sometimes. The Raptors would do it anyway. They're there to support the IG not single handedly liberate the planet. If the missile wasn't a problem for the Space Marines it's not like they would have went well "feth everyone else, not our problem."

That's not an argument, bro. That's a statement