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Warpcraft? If you mean the Emperor was a psyker then . . . duh. Not such a big bad secret. If you mean sorcery then offer a citation. Or burn at the stake, heretic.

@KamikazeCanuck: I too would like to know where this element of creation of primarchs is

Well from the way I understand it if Horus didn't fall chaos would have just been destroyed and the Emperor would have won the whole thing. The only reason Horus fell was because the gods of chaos just kept whispering he should have been top dawg and not the Emperor's number 2. Since he was and horus was a little girl he gave into chaos (and some dude that said he should) and fell starting the whole thing.

I think a heresy was brewing, but without a Primarch like Horus (Sanginus, maybe Guilliman) to pull together a bunch of Legions, it wouldn't have been at the same scale.

The World Eaters were sliding into depravity. The Night Lords already had. Magnus was dabbling in forbidden sorcery. And the Word Bearers had already been corrupted. And I forget if Fulgrim was possessed before or after Horus, but let's assume he gets possessed even if Horus doesn't fall.

So, even if Horus died at Davin (or threw off the ruinous powers), I don't think any of the other fallen Primarchs could have pulled together as large and power a force. And it's unlikely they would have worked together as well as they did. So, there would have been Marine on Marine warfare, but not at the magnitude of the Heresy.

I think a heresy was brewing, but without a Primarch like Horus (Sanginus, maybe Guilliman) to pull together a bunch of Legions, it wouldn't have been at the same scale.

The World Eaters were sliding into depravity. The Night Lords already had. Magnus was dabbling in forbidden sorcery. And the Word Bearers had already been corrupted. And I forget if Fulgrim was possessed before or after Horus, but let's assume he gets possessed even if Horus doesn't fall.

So, even if Horus died at Davin (or threw off the ruinous powers), I don't think any of the other fallen Primarchs could have pulled together as large and power a force. And it's unlikely they would have worked together as well as they did. So, there would have been Marine on Marine warfare, but not at the magnitude of the Heresy.

Manchu wrote:Warpcraft? If you mean the Emperor was a psyker then . . . duh. Not such a big bad secret. If you mean sorcery then offer a citation. Or burn at the stake, heretic.

This was all over the Horus Heresy series. I believe it was revealed to Horus (albeit by dubious sources) in the opening trilogy and then confirmed in A Thousand Sons (given up by none other than the Big E himself). The Emperor bargained with the Gods in some as yet unclear way in the creation of the primarchs, and their scattering was implied to be a direct consequence of this. It is also implied that the Emperor double crossed the gods in some way (perhaps by seeking to marginalise them through the Great Crusade). The scattering of the primarchs, and the choice of planets, can be seen as a design by the Gods to mould the primarchs into the flawed demigods they became so as to afford them the insurance policy of a primarch-led heresy.

The "revealed" stuff was lies of the servants of chaos.
So the stake is ready....

And a thousand sons has:
page94:

Unlike his brothers, Magnus remembered his conception and growth, recalling with perfect clarity the bond that existed betwen him and his father.

page95:

His father told him how the ancient shamans of old earth could tap into these currents and wield power beyond that of other mortals.
......
The emperor spoke of how these men had brougth ruin upon themselves and their people by trafficking with powers beyond their comprehension. Seeing Magnus interest, his father warned him against flying too long and too high in the aether for selfish gain.

This confirmes the Emperors warning to Magnus. It doesnt imply the emperor made the same mistake as Magnus.

I have to read Thousand Sons!

I used to think if Emp had allowed Word Bearers to play out their religious fervour on him then Erebus would not have had to steal anatheme used on the Davin Moon etc etc

This thread about creation of primarchs is gold - have to check it out

Horus was needed to convert more legions for the heresy