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Con Carne wrote:http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat210002&categoryId=500004§ion=&aId=9900050a

Perhaps something like this was what the OP was after? Website sez article was released July 2010, so this seems like a good starting point for people new to Fantasy.

Thank you for the link, but what I'm actually looking for is feedback from players. Better than some review GW prints about their armies. Probably says Bretts are wrecking face

Ah, good point. Wouldn't want anyone lured into playing Tomb Kings by accident, for example.

(Joking, I want to play them sometime)

Vampire Counts:

Vampire Counts Army Book wrote:Unnatural storm clouds gather overhead, blotting out the pale sun and casting foreboding shadow across the battlefield. From the twilight the chittering of bats and the bestial howls of wolves fill the air. A chill descends over the land, striking dread into the hearts of mortals that dare stand against this nightmarish host.

Packs of Crypt Ghouls bound forwards, devolved cannibals baying like hounds, eager to feast on the flesh of the living. Shambling hordes of Zombies shuffle forward with lurching steps, wisps of green witchfire playing about their limbs and dragging them forward like demented puppets. Their tattered flesh is blotched and rotted, revealing bloodless veins and unbeating hearts, their lifeless eyes staring mindlessly ahead. Some are little more than skeletons while others bear a terrifying resemblance to the recently deceased.

Behind the Zombies rank upon rank of Skeletal Soldiers march resolutely forward, clutching the bronze swords and shields of old, glowing balefires burning within their empty eye sockets. All that they remember of their past lives is faint echoes of battles fought in ages past. All that they feel is the compulsion to fight and obey their masters as they did so many years ago. Mortals who dare stand against the undead host are confronted with a ghastly apparition, for what soldier could remain unafraid with the vision of his own death lurching towards him?

Called forth from their rest by the magic of the dead, unquiet spirits roam the twilight fog. Their groaning cries pierce the soul and their chilling touch steals the life energy of the living, as if their fingers were daggers made of ice. Glimmering with a pulsing nimbus of black energy, Wraiths and Banshees flow amidst the Undead throng, seeking the warmth of mortals. Mortal weapons merely pass through these supernatural horrors and their presence drives the living insane with dread.

Clad in the ancient armour of distant centuries Wights, Grave Guard and Black Knights plucked from their barrow graves march implacably forward, step after step, in a horrendous mockery of the Knightly Orders of Men. Their weapons are corroded with time and dusty with the years, held together by an evil magic that suffuses their being with an eerie green glow. The mere touch of their blades is enough to snuff out the life of a living man and they are sustained by a seething malevolence powerful enough to ignore blows that would mortally wound a living creature.

Behind these creatures the witchfires of the army highlight the haggard-faced Necromancers cloaked in the skins of men. With their magical urgings bone knits and flesh fuses as the fallen of the shambling Horde stumble back to their feet to resume the advance with lipless moans. The stench of death hangs over the army like a pall.

At the centre of this hideous parody of a Mortal army stands the most powerful and dangerous abomination: the Vampire General. It is this nightmare creature whose will has summoned the dead from their graves and it is its will who has bound the army together. Vampires are unbelievably ancient beings. Created 5,000 years before present day by Nagash, they embody Necromancy: The magic of the past, of withered flesh and faded times. With unnatural strength, speed and toughness sucked from the souls of their prey the Vampire is a lethal Warrior-Sorceror that strikes a gripping fear into any who confronts it. Seeking dominion over all living things, a Vampire Lord raises its army from ancient battlefields and dusty tombs to overthrow the rule of mortals and reign over the survivors as an undying, merciless Emperor.

Few face the Vampire Counts and survive. The few who do are forever haunted by the memory.

If you seek an army of Good look away, for Vampire Counts are among the most Evil and despicable of Warhammer Armies. Vampire Counts at their simplest are an army of unbreakable, completely reliable and totally subpar units paired with some of the most complete and devastating characters in the game. They rely heavily on the synergy between characters and units and their magic, almost all Vampire Counts characters are Wizards. They best fit the visceral imagery of hordes of shambling dead pulling down the living. Every single entry in the army book causes fear or terror. They grind their enemy down through attrition, replacing their own losses as the enemy cannot replace theirs.

Vampire Characters are very expensive. A Vampire Lord can easily run 400 points and a Vampire Hero up to 200. Vampire Counts units are very expensive for what they do alone. Skeletons for example will run you 8 points a piece for a unit with WS2 S3 T3 I2 A1. They fight poorly, so you will need to exploit your ability to raise more of them as the battle progresses.

The Lore of Vampires is heavily bent towards summoning. You can raise D6 Undead back with Invocation of Nehek(3+), create a new unit of Zombies with Raise Dead(3+), create new Spirit Hosts with Wind of Undeath(12+) and raise 3D6 Undead or 5D6 Zombies with Summon Undead Horde (12+). Vanhel's Danse Macabre(7+) allows you to make an instant 8" march move or charge in the magic phase or always strike first and re-roll to hit in close combat. Critically, Necromancy spells can be cast multiple times upon the same unit by the same Wizard, making Vanhel's Dance Macabre and Invocation of Nehek very hard to stop.

Vampires are extremely customizable. They can be awesome combat monsters or tremendously powerful Wizards or something in between, it's all up to you with their Bloodline powers. They are all Wizards though and you can also purchase cheap Necromancers to one dice your reanimation spell (Invocation of Nehek) meaning Vampire Counts are easily turned to a very magic heavy army. Vampires can take any lore of magic from the Rulebook (except Life!) in addition to their own special Lore.

If Deathstars are what you seek there are the Blood Knights and the Grave Guard. Blood Knights (55 points a model) are a whole unit of Vampires with Strength 5 (7 on the charge), 4 attacks each at Weapon Skill 6 and with spammable Vanhel's it is very easy to give them Always Strikes First and Re-roll to hit. They may also take a magic banner for Regeneration, 4+ Ward Save outside of close combat, or Hatred. Grave Guard with Great Weapons are 13 points a piece with S6 T4 and Killing Blow. They can have all the banner options of Blood Knights as well as the Banner of the Barrows causing them to hit on 2's.

You also have access to many Ethereal Units (Spirit Hosts, Wraiths and Banshees, Black Coaches and Vampires can become Ethereal) which can be a nasty surprise for anyone who forgot their magic weapons at home.

Vampire fast and flying units are subpar. Dire Wolves and Fell Bats/Swarms are fairly weak and expensive. Zombie Dragons are overpriced.

Finally, if you wish to shoot your opponent you'll need to find another army. Vampire Counts have only one shooting unit: The Banshee with a whopping 8" range.

Vampire Counts were very strong in 7th and though weaker will likely still be very playable in 8th. None can stand against the coming darkness.

Eyclonus wrote:Lizardmen
-Dinosaurs.

-Lizard Knights. On Dinosaurs.

And this is the real reason why I decided to pick up the codex.

On an off-note about lizardmen, I just think that concept is hillarious.

Saurus Cavalry, I mean, Lizard's...that are knights....on dinosaurs.

As opposed to monkeys riding mammals?

Aduro wrote:As opposed to monkeys riding mammals?

Hairless monkeys, even. Without tails!

Now that the new rule book has been out for awhile, I figured I would bump this and hope for a few more overviews.

Wood Elves

Overall the army plays a very non-traditional game, lacking many RnF types of units to face off against your opponent. They have numerous fast moving units, access to both high WS and INI elven warriors and durable forest spirits units that makes the army play unlike their High or Dark cousins. In the end I would describe the army as strong shooting, decent magic and movement, passable melee and low numbers.

Pro's
- Dryads, core skirmishers with great stat line (STR 4, TOU 4, ATT 2, INI 6, 5++) at very good cost.
- Treekin, Monstrous Infantry got a boost in 8th, non more than Treekin. They are both strong in offense (STR 5 ATT 3) and durable (TOU 5 WOU 3, 4+/5++). While expensive per model they are just pure gold.
- Lord level Wizard has access to Life and Beasts, both strong Lores
- A few great Magic Items (Wand of the Wych Elm for magic defense, Hail of Doom arrow for offense)
- Core Shooter units (Glade Guard) that can move and shoot at good BS and good STR, good overall range
- Great Eagle rare access means some of the best 50 points spent in an army
- Treemen are still top notch Monsters, 8th edition hurts Monsters overall, but if used correctly...

Con's
- Forest Spirit Ward save does *not* work against magic attacks, so spells, enemy characters with magic weapons or anything else generating magic attacks negates their ward save
- aside from Treekin, only Glade Guard (dedicated shooters) and Eternal Guard rank up, and Eternal Guard (up skilled Spearelves) are pricey for limited abilities
- overall army book magic items are found wanting compared to other army books.
- Hero level Wizards have access to army specific Lore only
- Combat Lords and Heroes are very squishy, low TOU and limited access to protective gear makes them relatively ineffective in the 8th edition world, especially Heroes.
- both cavalry options, Glade Riders and Wild Riders, got really nerf'd in 8th. They lack any staying power, are pricey and just don't fit well into the way the game currently plays

In the end, the Wood Elves army book is showing its age in many regards. The army can still compete in the 8th edition world but overall the average Wood Elf player had to completely rethink their approach to the game and the growing pains are being felt.

Beastmen - An army capable of a number of different organization themes. Lots of Gors, ungors, Mostly Minotaurs, All chariots, Centigors. The core troops are very good for their points cost. Even ungors with spears are good in large blocks if they can stay in range of a battle standard bearer. Minotaurs are awesome as well. Though I'm a bigger fan of using gor's in large numbers. With lore of beasts they can get s4, t5. Which is great when combined with primal fury tests passing. Can bring a lot of pain down on enemy units once they get to grips with them.

All of their special choices are also viable to take. 5 Harpies ugpraded to scouts are always worth taking for their points. Great at attacking exposed wizards and scaring war-machines. Centigors are slightly expensive but if used well can be devastating. Bestigors arguably can be the weaker special choice. That said they can perform well in a fight. They just suffer from only having heavy armour. Better in 20+ blocks so to ensure theres some left to strike back. Minotaurs are great in all respects. You wont go far wrong having a block of 6 on one flank. Razorgors are not bad in herds. But better in chariot form. One or two of these working in tandem with other units can help immensely. Tuskgor chariots are also good in multiples charging enemy flanks. Warhounds are so so. Okay throwaway shock units and missile screen. Ungor raiders I like more for this duty as they're also ranged.

Rares are all decent to amazing. The least useful is the Cygor in my view. This guy could feasibly kill himself trying to throw boulders at the enemy. And with WS2 is too easily hurt in close combat for my liking. I'd only take him if you really want to. Jabberslythe is a great unit still. Yes it got a bit reduced in effectiveness with the new terror/fear changes. But with its fly ability and rules it can still fulfill a roll. Think of it as a shock unit. Giants are useful if random ( like all are ) in this army. I'd be most tempted to throw this guy against large targets in the hopes of getting a Chomp! attack. D3 wounds caused that heal the giant for same amount. This works against war-machine crews it seems! Finally the Ghorgon. This guy is the rare choice you'll want to include in larger battles. He'll go like Godzilla through enemy core units and give elite units a run for their money. A great unit to have.

Lords and heros are all solid. They're all best used offensively as suited for this army. Even a bray shaman at a pinch can do okay in a fight in a unit. Whilst beastlords and Doombulls/hero counterparts are great at reaping bloody paths across the table. Though lack in more solid protection. Though the new common magic items in the rulebook alleviates this. Bray shamans are great ( if not the best ) wizards around with their stat-line and choices of magic lores. Beasts is a great standard lore to pick for a single wizard army. The other lores are all good for multiple wizards.

Ambush and primal fury add a fun and different slant to this army. Re-rolling to hits, Possible frenzy and the possibility of units coming on from any table edge really keys into this armies personality. As well as makes them unpredictable to counter and perform better on the table. Their only real weakness if a lack of ranged ( bar a magic weapon that lets you have a bolt thrower, Cygor stone thrower attack and ungor raiders with bows. ) and negligible amour. Though this is countered by their sheer close combat potential and tough units/masses that they can field. As well as their fast units.

To sum it up. If you want a close combat army with variety, great magic and a different feel to it. Plus a great history and background go for them. They're not your run of the mill army.

With respect to 8th, I'd say my comments for Lizardmen still pretty much apply. The main difference is that Slann are less usable due to the high price for their Discpline upgrades, which are pretty much mandatory as these are what separates them from other Level 4 wizards and grants them the superpowers. The same applies to a EotG as the better loadouts for it put it at 440 points... a little too much and rules out using a slann unless you're playing massive battles.

Ogres

Pros:
-The most multi-wound models in the game.
-Some of fastest infantry in the game.
-Really high non-shooting attributes.
-Just about every unit has Stomp.
-Powerful charge.
-Cheaper than other races' roughly equivalent versions of ogres (Kroxigor, rat ogres, trolls, etc).
-15% cheaper non-stubborn Giant.
-Gnoblars.
-They are funny.

Cons:
-Lousy shooting.
-Only one war machine.
-Lousy magic. Primarily buffs instead of "hey, half your army is gone."
-Only two Lords, three Heroes, two Characters. Not a lot of variation between them.
-Not the best initiative.
-Not the best armor.
-Gnoblars.
-They're all big fatties.

Resurrecting this thread. I'd love to get some updates for it now that 8th has been out for awhile. It would probably help a lot of people out.