Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Tac squad and Rhino are one unit when writing up your army list but two units when actually on the board.

Sigmatron wrote:Tac squad and Rhino are one unit when writing up your army list but two units when actually on the board.

No, they're not. A squad and their dedicated transport are never a single unit.

They're a single choice on the Force Organisation Chart. FoC choices are not always a single unit.

Sigmatron wrote:Tac squad and Rhino are one unit when writing up your army list but two units when actually on the board.

Wrong! One FOC slot, one choice, one whatever... two units.

Thats what I meant, and wrote. Just worded differently.

It might be what you meant, but it's not at all what you wrote.

A unit and a FoC choice are not the same thing. The two terms are not interchangeable.

Sigmatron wrote:Tac squad and Rhino are one unit when writing up your army list but two units when actually on the board.

"Writing up your army list" aka filling up your FoC.

They're still not one unit.

You are correct. They are always 2 units but for the purpose of FoC, they are considered to be one choice. I just worded it with the same terminology.

And that terminology was incorrect. Man up, admit it, and move on.

Sigmatron wrote: I just worded it with the same terminology.

Which is why you were called on it.


Seriously, this isn't just pointless nitpicking. In a discussion of the rules, using the correct terminology is essential to ensure that everybody understands what you're talking about. Substituting a rules-based term for a different term that (within the rule-set in question) actually means something completely different is guaranteed to mess things up.

Sigmatron wrote:Tac squad and Rhino are one unit when writing up your army list

Sigmatron wrote:They are always 2 units

As for the thread... can we sticky the answer or something already? This has to be one of the most common, and most basic, topics in YMDC.
It's amazing how many people, despite being confused about whether their transports count, don't read the clear example right there in the DOW rules. And how many are confused even after being sent to read that and having it explained to them that transports are separate units.

Okay, then would a IG platoon be counted as one unit for the purposes of the Dawn of War scenario?

Ironhide wrote:Okay, then would a IG platoon be counted as one unit for the purposes of the Dawn of War scenario?

Does the IG platoon consist of multiple separate units at deployment?
This isn't rocket science... defining the answer for every single case really shouldn't be necessary.

Well, if my memory is correct, an IG platoon consists of 1 PCS, 2-5 Inf Squads, X amount of Special Weapon Squads, X amount of Heavy Weapon Squads, and X amount of conscripts. So if that is what makes up an IG platoon, why wouldn't the whole thing be deployed as one unit?

Ironhide wrote:Well, if my memory is correct, an IG platoon consists of 1 PCS, 2-5 Inf Squads, X amount of Special Weapon Squads, X amount of Heavy Weapon Squads, and X amount of conscripts. So if that is what makes up an IG platoon, why wouldn't the whole thing be deployed as one unit?

Because they're a single troops CHOICE, not a single troop UNIT. There's an important difference.

Ironhide wrote:Well, if my memory is correct, an IG platoon consists of 1 PCS, 2-5 Inf Squads, X amount of Special Weapon Squads, X amount of Heavy Weapon Squads, and X amount of conscripts. So if that is what makes up an IG platoon, why wouldn't the whole thing be deployed as one unit?

BECAUSE IT'S NOT ONE UNIT!

How hard is that to understand?

A Platoon of PCS and 2 Infantry Squads is 3 units.

Ironhide wrote:Well, if my memory is correct, an IG platoon consists of 1 PCS, 2-5 Inf Squads, X amount of Special Weapon Squads, X amount of Heavy Weapon Squads, and X amount of conscripts. So if that is what makes up an IG platoon, why wouldn't the whole thing be deployed as one unit?

So, you're asking if a platoon command squad, 2+ infantry squads, some special weapon squads, some heavy weapon squads, and some conscript squads... are a single unit.
Even if we include using the combined squad special rule that's... just...

You're really not getting this units vs FOC slots thing, are you?

And there is the crux of my problem with using the word UNIT. A Platoon is a unit comprised of sections, sections are a unit comprised of squads, squads are comprised of units of teams, and teams are made up of individuals. A company can be called a unit, so can a division, so can a group, etc. See my problem? So help me out here, where in the BRB does it define what a unit IS?

Ironhide wrote:And there is the crux of my problem with using the word UNIT. A Platoon is a unit comprised of sections, sections are a unit comprised of squads, squads are comprised of units of teams, and teams are made up of individuals. A company can be called a unit, so can a division, so can a group, etc. See my problem? So help me out here, where in the BRB does it define what a unit IS?

On page 3, under the heading 'Model and Units'. It's in both the table of contents and the index (under 'Units').

Note that squad is defined as a term used interchangeably with unit.
Note that the separate squads in a IG platoon (or a DT and it's purchasing squad, for example) are not defined as a single unit, do not act as a single unit, and are not subject to the rules surrounding units (they do not have to maintain coherency, they do not have to shoot at the same target, etc.). They are, in fact, rather clearly defined as separate units.

This is one of the most basic blocks the game is built around. These rules have nothing to do with the force organazation chart slots other than that they default to a 1:1 relationship (which is often modified by rules such as those for DTs).
What is confusing you here?

(Yes I'm glossing over IG combined infantry squads. They're a very specific case, are clearly defined in their rules, and don't bring an infantry platoon down to 1 unit anyway.)

From the rulebook:

A unit will usually consist of several models that fight as a group, but it can also be a single, very large powerful model, such as a battle tank, a monstrous alien creature or a lone hero. In the rules that follow, all of these are referred to as "units". The different types of unit are detailed overleaf.

This is ambiguous to me.

Ironhide wrote:From the rulebook:

A unit will usually consist of several models that fight as a group, but it can also be a single, very large powerful model, such as a battle tank, a monstrous alien creature or a lone hero. In the rules that follow, all of these are referred to as "units". The different types of unit are detailed overleaf.

This is ambiguous to me.

Then there is no hope for us to convince you is there?

In short, you are wrong. A Platoon is multiple units. You can choose to ignore the rules, If you wish.

Look, it even gives an example of Tac Squad and Rhino as two units in the freaking rulebook. By your logic, they are one unit.

Is English not your native language? Is that part of the problem here?

A unit is any set of models that have to stay within coherency, fire at the same target, assault the same target, all get onto the same transport, etc.

That is why ten tac marines and a rhino, if combat squadded, are three units. If I pour pulse rifle fire onto one of those five man squads, can the hits transfer over to the rhino or the other squad? Of course not, they're separate units.

For the IG platoon, do the command squad, heavy weapon squads, and all the ten man squads have to stay within 2" of each other, and shoot at the same target, or can they move and fire independently around the board?

If wiping it out counts as a kill point, it's a unit.

Okay a-holes. Since you want to be insulting, I can be insulting too.

Let's dissect the sentence.

"A unit will usually consist of SEVERAL models that fight as a group.."

This can easily be a IC joined to a Tac squad making ONE UNIT, or a squadron of tanks forming ONE UNIT. Or a platoon made up of several squads. Not so easily understood.

"...but it can also be a single, very large powerful model, such as a battle tank, a monstrous alien creature or a lone hero."

This can easily be one IC or one tank/monstrous creatue. Easily understood.

"In the rules that follow, ALL OF THESE are referred to as "units".

So any GROUPING can be termed as a UNIT.

Ironhide wrote:Okay a-holes. Since you want to be insulting, I can be insulting too.

That's an option. Or everybody can just simmer down a little, make a bit more of an effort to be polite, and keep their posting privileges.



Ironhide, the relevant bit you're looking for is in the previous paragraph to the one you quoted. The defining characteristic of a unit is that the models in it have to remain together for the battle. This is then further explained in the coherency rules.

Multiple squads bought from the same FoC do not have to remain together, as they are separate units.

And that is exactly what I need. Thank you, Insaniak.

Ironhide wrote:

"A unit will usually consist of SEVERAL models that fight as a group.."

What exactly was the point of your emphasis? If anything should be udnerlined its models. Several models does not mean several units, they are both clearly defined terms in the rule book, let alone the english language.