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Kasrkinlegion wrote:Also keep in mind that you can always sell the models in the starter box on ebay and make a lot of the money back from the starter box. After carrying the BRB to a few games, you will break down and buy a starter set for the little book alone. Might as well just wait for it. It also comes with templates (which are much easier to use than the new spoked one) and dice, all of which you'd have to buy extra anyway if you buy the BRB.

This is too true... I'm eagerly awaiting the starter set coming out just to lighten my load a bit!!

Hah, I don't think you understand my love of carrying around ridiculously heavy books just for material. I might grab the starter set later, but for now I'd like to actually get into the game. I postpone things too often, and I don't trust my self to hold on to any money until the Starter Set comes out.

Would getting a Spawn kit and a Dwarf Cannon to kitbash together be Kosher? I'd love to hollow out the top of the Spawn and replace a bit of upper torso+head with Cannon, with arms and tentacles gripping it for support. The guys at my store are pretty nice about conversions and stuff like that, I have yet to meet TFG.

Finally got my Rulebook+Battalion!

These little motherfethers are going to take forever to paint *drool*. So, I've been hitting the rulebook like a man possessed, and think I've got it pretty much down, but would still need to reference it a few dozen times per turn. Friggin fraggin codex was out of stock though.

I've also decided to go Mono-Tzeentch with Sorcerer Lord, and my primary force so far (12 warriors, 36 Marauders, 5 Knights, 10 Hounds) are all going to be given HW+S when applicable.

Now, how many options are there for a Sorc Lord? Is it going to be pretty much pick a few things and put him out there, or am I going to go mad with indecision?

Haddi wrote:
Would getting a Spawn kit and a Dwarf Cannon to kitbash together be Kosher? I'd love to hollow out the top of the Spawn and replace a bit of upper torso+head with Cannon, with arms and tentacles gripping it for support. The guys at my store are pretty nice about conversions and stuff like that, I have yet to meet TFG.

Could be very cool. I wouldn't have a problem with it- and your best bet is to make sure the base size is appropriate. This is actually a little complicated- I don't see anything listed in the FAQ, and I've heard that it doesn't come with a base? For some reason I have a picture of a 60mm base in my head. Don't know why.

Red_Zeke wrote:

Haddi wrote:
Would getting a Spawn kit and a Dwarf Cannon to kitbash together be Kosher? I'd love to hollow out the top of the Spawn and replace a bit of upper torso+head with Cannon, with arms and tentacles gripping it for support. The guys at my store are pretty nice about conversions and stuff like that, I have yet to meet TFG.

Could be very cool. I wouldn't have a problem with it- and your best bet is to make sure the base size is appropriate. This is actually a little complicated- I don't see anything listed in the FAQ, and I've heard that it doesn't come with a base? For some reason I have a picture of a 60mm base in my head. Don't know why.

There is no base for it.

Not to hijack the topic, but I'm starting WoC myself, and was wondering: How horrible are the WoC special characters? I'm used to SCs from their time period being reasonably terrible, but converting up Kholek Suneater just seems like too much fun to pass up.

Laughing Man wrote:Not to hijack the topic, but I'm starting WoC myself, and was wondering: How horrible are the WoC special characters? I'm used to SCs from their time period being reasonably terrible, but converting up Kholek Suneater just seems like too much fun to pass up.

The WoC characters are pretty balanced for the most part.

Archaon is still a tough, killy bastard, but the %-system puts him in very high point games only.

Galrauch is very fun to use(and pretty decent against anyone without cannons or mass bolt throwers), but he is kind of expensive for what he does and he does like to beat on himself still(although the BSB can help with that now).

Sigvald only got better this addition. The BSB can help with his stupidity and he is Ld10 and Stubborn still.

Kholek got hit(like most other monsters), but he still is a force to be reckoned with his many high Str attacks and shooting ability.

Valkia is still nasty, but she is no longer the cruise missile she once was. She is no longer running at characters in units on her own unless you want her to die.

Vilitch isn't so great, IMHO. I really don't see enough failed attempts to cast/dispell spells to make him seem worthwhile. He also has less defense than a normal Sorc Lord would. His Loremast ability is nice though.

Note: Also keep in mind for Archaon. Sigvald, Kholek, and Valkia; if you have one of them, then it is likely that you don't have a Lvl 4 Sorc Lord, which still seems mandatory, IMHO.

Festus still provides great bonuses to his unit(even if Regen got slightly nerfed), but he really sucks in combat.

Throgg is pretty much broken for his points, he can take on most Lords and ask for seconds.

Wulfrik is ok, but not really that great. His 'Ambush'-isk ability should be interesting to use since Marauders got better.

I feel that you do not need a sorcerer lord.

JSK-Fox wrote:I feel that you do not need a sorcerer lord.

Maybe it's just the number of LM and VC players around here, but it just seems that I always need a Lvl4 to keep my dispelling up with my opponent's casting.

EDIT: And Sorc Lords can get the Lores of Heavens and Shadow, which are really cool. Regular Sorcerers can only have Fire and Death.

I find that Khorne doesn't like sorcerers too much. Anyways, the Chaos Lord is too good to pass up!

Well, I don't find Lords so great compared to Exalted Heros(Ok stat bump, but so much more expensive), but each to his own.

Oh hey Tzeentchling, you go to the Springfield Plaza GW?

Well, I have yet to grab the codex as I (think) I mentioned. Out of stock, apparently people have been grabbing them in droves. So, I don't quite understand how the Exalted Heroes, Sorc Lords, etc, really work. I understand the rules of the game, I just don't know what a non special character general could be for us.

Any lvl 3 or 4 sorcerer lord will be a lord choice as will a Chaos Lord

Exalted Heros and Sorcerers are hero choices and their points go in that percent group

I agree with Tzeentchling in magic heavy environments a lvl 4 is mandatory, even if your running khorne. Unlike Chaos Daemons Khorne WoC units dont get magic resistance for the most part. Plus if you trying to learn the game having a magic user is important, otherwise WoC are down to the movement and cc phases of the game (leaving out both magic and shooting - unless you have a hellcannon).

Casper wrote:Any lvl 3 or 4 sorcerer lord will be a lord choice as will a Chaos Lord

Exalted Heros and Sorcerers are hero choices and their points go in that percent group

I agree with Tzeentchling in magic heavy environments a lvl 4 is mandatory, even if your running khorne. Unlike Chaos Daemons Khorne WoC units dont get magic resistance for the most part. Plus if you trying to learn the game having a magic user is important, otherwise WoC are down to the movement and cc phases of the game (leaving out both magic and shooting - unless you have a hellcannon).

I've heard that I can run a Daemon prince as a caster with some survivability, is this true or were they fething with me?

Haddi wrote:I've heard that I can run a Daemon prince as a caster with some survivability, is this true or were they fething with me?

They are fething you concerning the survivability part. 4 Wounds with Toughness 5 tends to be target practice for a single model, even if you get a +4 ward via MoT.

Tzeentchling9 wrote:

Haddi wrote:I've heard that I can run a Daemon prince as a caster with some survivability, is this true or were they fething with me?

They are fething you concerning the survivability part. 4 Wounds with Toughness 5 tends to be target practice for a single model, even if you get a +4 ward via MoT.

Well, even if he isn't as tough as I'd like, is he still a viable alternative to a Sorc Lord? How do their points values stack up?

Pretty poorly, the DP needs to spend 40 points per wizard level.

Tzeentchling9 wrote:Pretty poorly, the DP needs to spend 40 points per wizard level.

How much would a 4th lvl sorc (Otherwise naked) compare costwise to a 4th lvl sorc DP?

Still a bit ticked over having to ask all these stupid questions, Haven't really had a chance to read the codex, and I don't know when we get more Codices

Haddi wrote:

Tzeentchling9 wrote:Pretty poorly, the DP needs to spend 40 points per wizard level.

How much would a 4th lvl sorc (Otherwise naked) compare costwise to a 4th lvl sorc DP?

Still a bit ticked over having to ask all these stupid questions, Haven't really had a chance to read the codex, and I don't know when we get more Codices

270 vs 360

Fortunately for me, the metagame in my area means that I only really would need a lvl 2 sorcerer max. I can haz my wonderous Khorne Lord on a Juggernaught with Armour that makes him immune to killing blow and things that do multiple wounds, and is immune to the purple sun of death, and never takes any characteristic tests. And he ignores poison. He also is s6 with killing blow.

Are you referring to a magical armor, combined with the (I think enchanted item) Necrotic Phylactery? What armor are you referring to? That does sound very good!

To the poster thinking about using kholek and converting him above- do it! Then post pics!! I can't figure out how to do it... right now, I'm thinking I will convert my regular shaggoth to have 2 hand weapons, and then use the normal posed shaggoth for kholek, with just a big hammer head instead of the axe head.

It would be cool to do something more elaborate if someone wants to figure it out and share it with me, though...

He has the Axe of Khorne (+1 Str, Killing blow), the Crimson Armour of Dargan (Immune to KB and multiple wounds) and Necrotic Phylactery (Immune to Poison, Passes all Char tests, and immune to Lores of Death and Nurgle).

Lord with MoK, those magic items, Juggernaut and perhaps some Demonic Gifts is going to place your lord in the 370-400 point range.

He's a beast in combat and a cool model but without a ward save, he still can be killed fairly easily.

He's still immune to the purple sun o' doom, and the pit of death.

JSK-Fox wrote:He's still immune to the purple sun o' doom, and the pit of death.

Right he's immune to those spells but its the non death magic or character test spells i'm worried about. The lore of Metal will wreck him as will may of the army buff spells, like Shadow's Okhims Razor (especially if that unit has ASF, which the Lord does not).

If your sticking with a Khorne theme at least give him the Collar of Khorne for the ward and magic resistance.

Warmachienes may not be able to do multiple wounds but they do ignore his armor and with no ward save he wont last long in the open, even if you put him in a unit of knights he may not benefit from Look Out Sir (did they ever clear that up?).

I'm glad he works in your situation JSK-Fox. Its just in my area there are too many warmachienes and lvl 4 casters that would love to take aim at him.

All right, due to some...odd circumstances, this is all I have to build my army from

12 Warriors

52 Marauders

10 Chaos Knights

10 Warhounds


So, where do I go from this?
Again, I still do not have a codex, as my GW is STILL out of stock.

Casper wrote:

JSK-Fox wrote:He's still immune to the purple sun o' doom, and the pit of death.

Right he's immune to those spells but its the non death magic or character test spells i'm worried about. The lore of Metal will wreck him as will may of the army buff spells, like Shadow's Okhims Razor (especially if that unit has ASF, which the Lord does not).

If your sticking with a Khorne theme at least give him the Collar of Khorne for the ward and magic resistance.

Warmachienes may not be able to do multiple wounds but they do ignore his armor and with no ward save he wont last long in the open, even if you put him in a unit of knights he may not benefit from Look Out Sir (did they ever clear that up?).

I'm glad he works in your situation JSK-Fox. Its just in my area there are too many warmachienes and lvl 4 casters that would love to take aim at him.

I forgot to mention that he is in a group of knights with the blasted banner, for the 5+ ward save against magic and shooting, and the juggernaut gives him mr (1), making him get a 4+ ward save against magic.

Haddi wrote:All right, due to some...odd circumstances, this is all I have to build my army from

12 Warriors

52 Marauders

10 Chaos Knights

10 Warhounds


So, where do I go from this?
Again, I still do not have a codex, as my GW is STILL out of stock.

Well i would run the Knights and hounds in 2 groups of 5. Use them on the flanks.

50 Marauders can either be turned into a horde unit with GW or Flails and MoK, or HW/Shield with MoT. You could break them down into 2 groups of 26 if you wanted to play with smaller blocks.

Warriors you can do alot with some like MoK+Haliberds or Xtra Hand Wep, MoN and MoT should be used with Shields.

Hope that helps.

Casper wrote:

Haddi wrote:All right, due to some...odd circumstances, this is all I have to build my army from

12 Warriors

52 Marauders

10 Chaos Knights

10 Warhounds


So, where do I go from this?
Again, I still do not have a codex, as my GW is STILL out of stock.

Well i would run the Knights and hounds in 2 groups of 5. Use them on the flanks.

50 Marauders can either be turned into a horde unit with GW or Flails and MoK, or HW/Shield with MoT. You could break them down into 2 groups of 26 if you wanted to play with smaller blocks.

Warriors you can do alot with some like MoK+Haliberds or Xtra Hand Wep, MoN and MoT should be used with Shields.

Hope that helps.

What I was thinking was running my Marauders in 2 blocks with HW+S with MoT and use them to gum up as many as possible, use them as Fire Magnets.

Then run my Warriors with Halberds and MoK, and use them along with my Knights with MoK and Lances (Knights can take those, right?) (Who would be supported by Hounds to strike at flanks.

Right now, I want to play very small games until I get the rules down, and the money to expand. With this sort of force, what sort of points value should I stay at to use as many of them as possible along with some sort of Sorc General?

Spellbound wrote:When you can't afford a BSB, say in 1000 point games, the Mark of Slaanesh is still very very good. With only a few units running around, failing a panic test can be devastating.

Especially at 1000 points, the 50 points (assuming you have 5 units running around, most builds usually will) you use on MoS could be useful somewhere else.

It was useful last edition due to the Fear Auto-Break, now thats gone.

Plus you're already rerolling Panic due to the will of chaos rule on Ld 8-9 depending on your general and items. There's no reason to make yourself completely immune when you are already almost immune... Covering up that small chance is not as good as +1 Attack or taking less casualties from shooting.

Haddi wrote:
Then run my Warriors with Halberds and MoK, and use them along with my Knights with MoK and Lances (Knights can take those, right?) (Who would be supported by Hounds to strike at flanks.

Right now, I want to play very small games until I get the rules down, and the money to expand. With this sort of force, what sort of points value should I stay at to use as many of them as possible along with some sort of Sorc General?

Aim for 1000 points. I would never run Chaos Knights with lances, the extra strenght on the charge is nice but I would rather have str 5 all the time in every round of combat.