So what's wrong with calling the WWII German army 'Nazis'?

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**Polonius**

That's a pretty weak stretch even for you Frazz. You can't allow for entire nationalities to bear the sins of a group without having the same policy sent back.

**ShumaGorath**

Frazzled wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:
PC nonsense. The Nazi Party started one of the great killing sprees ever in the history of mankind, on the backs of the Luftwaffe and the Wehrmacht. You don't like your grandad being slandered with the term Nazi, then grandad's country and the wehrmacht shouldn't have let it happened.

And how do you feel when people call members of the U.S. military torturers, child killers, hospital bombers, and all those other neat little slanderous things that they actually did do but often under orders in conflicts of ambiguous moral value?

I say "Wait I should care what you say? Why?"

So you're supporting the Nazis now? excellent.

Hey, you're the one that supports the confederate south. Just trying to figure out where you stand.

**1hadhq**

Frazzled wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:I would like to know if our German members are offended by people calling the WW2 German army Nazis.

Why would we care? They started it. They lost. My concerns for whether they are offended that their murdering bastard armies are called Nazis is less than nothing.
The Germans alive today aren't murdering bastards and the Germans alive today aren't Nazis. Its no bearing on them.
If the descendants of those who fought for the Union want to call Southern Rebel troops "traitorous scum," its the same thing. They were, and none of us were alive then so its irrelevant to us.

In the immortal words of soccer fans doing the wave when playing a German team "If you won the war please stand up! If you won the war please stand up!"

Why should we care?
Threads like these may contain pics worth looking at but thats all.

Please consider to rethink such cheer as " please stand up", it always leads to us beating your team and we know how silent youre then..

**Frazzled**

Polonius wrote:So, by your logic, the POWs that worked as slaves in the German war effort are just as culpable as Hitler in the crimes of Nazi Germany.

Nooooo... I'm saying the wehrmacht had the ability to stop it before it happened, but they made a deal with the Devil (literally in this instance). The survivors then tried to rationalize that they weren't part of it. They knew what they were doing when they rolled onto the steppes of Russia. They weren't going there for pizza. They were going for Liebensraum.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

1hadhq wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:I would like to know if our German members are offended by people calling the WW2 German army Nazis.

Why would we care? They started it. They lost. My concerns for whether they are offended that their murdering bastard armies are called Nazis is less than nothing.
The Germans alive today aren't murdering bastards and the Germans alive today aren't Nazis. Its no bearing on them.
If the descendants of those who fought for the Union want to call Southern Rebel troops "traitorous scum," its the same thing. They were, and none of us were alive then so its irrelevant to us.

In the immortal words of soccer fans doing the wave when playing a German team "If you won the war please stand up! If you won the war please stand up!"

Why should we care?
Threads like these may contain pics worth looking at but thats all.

Please consider to rethink such cheer as " please stand up", it always leads to us beating your team and we know how silent youre then..

That works if I were British, playing them in soccer. I'm American, once our team loses we forget there's even a sport called soccer.

**ShumaGorath**

Frazzled wrote:
Polonius wrote:So, by your logic, the POWs that worked as slaves in the German war effort are just as culpable as Hitler in the crimes of Nazi Germany.

Nooooo... I'm saying the wehrmacht had the ability to stop it before it happened, but they made a deal with the Devil (literally in this instance). The survivors then tried to rationalize that they weren't part of it. They knew what they were doing when they rolled onto the steppes of Russia. They weren't going there for pizza. They were going for Liebensraum.

Are you attempting to corroborate leadership of a military body with it's rank and file soldiery? So... It's my marine buddies fault that we went to Iraq? You're spiraling the drain here frazzy.

**Frazzled**

ShumaGorath wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:
PC nonsense. The Nazi Party started one of the great killing sprees ever in the history of mankind, on the backs of the Luftwaffe and the Wehrmacht. You don't like your grandad being slandered with the term Nazi, then grandad's country and the wehrmacht shouldn't have let it happened.

And how do you feel when people call members of the U.S. military torturers, child killers, hospital bombers, and all those other neat little slanderous things that they actually did do but often under orders in conflicts of ambiguous moral value?

I say "Wait I should care what you say? Why?"

So you're supporting the Nazis now? excellent.

Hey, you're the one that supports the confederate south. Just trying to figure out where you stand.

No your reading comprehension is as poor today as my typing skills. Reread the post.

**Asherian Command**

The German army were not nazis. The Real ones are the High Commanders. If you look at the ones that betrayed Hitler the most they were all from The German Army.

**Frazzled**

Polonius wrote:That's a pretty weak stretch even for you Frazz. You can't allow for entire nationalities to bear the sins of a group without having the same policy sent back.

I'm not. I'm not saying Germany (or not intending to). I'm saying the German military forces. They went along hook, line, and sinker.

**Polonius**

What about conscripts? what about those that simply enlisted due to propaganda, or those that did so out of what they felt was national duty?

How can we reconcile holding private soldiers of the Wermacht in contempt, but not General Lee, who fought for, among other reasons, the continuation of chattel slavery?

**Frazzled**

ShumaGorath wrote:

Are you attempting to corroborate leadership of a military body with it's rank and file soldiery?

In this case you betcha. Every mother loving one of them that crossed the Danube East. Every village burned. Every villager killed. Every city bombed. Its on their heads.

**dogma**

Frazzled wrote:So you're supporting the Nazis now? excellent.

No one said anything in support of Nazis. The conversation is about who can properly be called a Nazi.

It makes sense to refer to the German Army of that era, collectively, as one defined by Nazism as that was the controlling influence. It does not make sense to infer, as a result, that all individual German soldiers were Nazis. Its not really a difficult distinction.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:
In this case you betcha. Every mother loving one of them that crossed the Danube East. Every village burned. Every villager killed. Every city bombed. Its on their heads.

Right, so all US soldiers who served during Vietnam were war criminals. I'll make sure to remember that.

**Frazzled**

dogma wrote:

It makes sense to refer to the German Army of that era, collectively, as one defined by Nazism as that was the controlling influence. It does not make sense to infer, as a result, that all individual German soldiers were Nazis. Its not really a difficult distinction.

They are part of the organization that carried out the goals of the Nazis. By supporting them you become them. Sorry it stings but too bad. Thats what they get for helping that happen.

**Viktor von Domm**

when massexecutions where carried out due to orders given by gunpoint i want to see the allmighty and ever so moral high ranking frazzeld choose the ranks of the soon to be executed instead of pulling the trigger and get in the bunks with a warm beer ...

i know now when you had been born earlier then the second world war wouldnt eaven happend and your are secretly right now working high gear for world peace and against famine in the sahel zone... inst it?

**ShumaGorath**

Frazzled wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:
PC nonsense. The Nazi Party started one of the great killing sprees ever in the history of mankind, on the backs of the Luftwaffe and the Wehrmacht. You don't like your grandad being slandered with the term Nazi, then grandad's country and the wehrmacht shouldn't have let it happened.

And how do you feel when people call members of the U.S. military torturers, child killers, hospital bombers, and all those other neat little slanderous things that they actually did do but often under orders in conflicts of ambiguous moral value?

I say "Wait I should care what you say? Why?"

So you're supporting the Nazis now? excellent.

Hey, you're the one that supports the confederate south. Just trying to figure out where you stand.

The South will rise again.

Classy.

**Frazzled**

Viktor von Domm wrote:when massexecutions where carried out due to orders given by gunpoint i want to see the allmighty and ever so moral high ranking frazzeld choose the ranks of the soon to be executed instead of pulling the trigger and get in the bunks with a warm beer ...

i know now when you had been born earlier then the second world war wouldnt eaven happend and your are secretly right now working high gear for world peace and against famine in the sahel zone... inst it?

They weren't at gunpoint.
Why were the panzers in Russia again?
Why did they bomb Warsaw?
How many French civilians did they massacre when they retreated from France? How many Russians? How many Poles, Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, Ukrainians, Serbs
How many Russian peasants was it again for every German killed behind the lines?

Each and every one of them were guilty.

**dogma**

Frazzled wrote:
They are part of the organization that carried out the goals of the Nazis. By supporting them you become them. Sorry it stings but too bad. Thats what they get for helping that happen.

No, supporting a group does not make one a member of that group. If it did Israel would have a population much greater than 7.6 million, the American armed forces would constitute the vast majority of the nation's population, and everyone in the US would be a socialist due to programs like Medicare.

**Polonius**

Relax, Viktor. Frazz, by his own logic, burnt children alive in Viet Nam, fire bombed Dresden, lynched thousands of people in the South, wiped out the Native Americans, and produced The Last Airbender.

**dogma**

Frazzled wrote:
Each and every one of them were guilty.

Would you also consider the whole of the Vietnam era US Army to be constituted by war criminals because of the My Lai Massacre, or only the soldiers directly associated with the action?

Honestly, it seems like you're just taking the easy way out to avoid putting any effort into categorizing individual people.

**Frazzled**

False analogy.

But then again I don't care. Each and every one of them is guilty. The voices of millions of lives cut short call out their guilt.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Polonius wrote:Relax, Viktor. Frazz, by his own logic, burnt children alive in Viet Nam, fire bombed Dresden, lynched thousands of people in the South, wiped out the Native Americans, and produced The Last Airbender.

hey thats low. I didn't have anything to do with Airbender.

**Polonius**

The shame is that compared to many other evil movements, there is actually a pretty good case to be made for enhanced culpability of Germans compared to many others, such as the Soviets. There really was little organized resistance to Nazi rule, there was widespread acceptance of the Holocaust (or at least what was known), and in their actions in the East many private soldiers took the theory of racial superiority to heart.

**Kilkrazy**

Frazzled wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:I would like to know if our German members are offended by people calling the WW2 German army Nazis.

Why would we care? They started it. They lost. My concerns for whether they are offended that their murdering bastard armies are called Nazis is less than nothing.
The Germans alive today aren't murdering bastards and the Germans alive today aren't Nazis. Its no bearing on them.
If the descendants of those who fought for the Union want to call Southern Rebel troops "traitorous scum," its the same thing. They were, and none of us were alive then so its irrelevant to us.

In the immortal words of soccer fans doing the wave when playing a German team "If you won the war please stand up! If you won the war please stand up!"

We would care because they are human beings.

**Frazzled**

And so were their victms.
(for the record I didn't close this thread)