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SaintHazard wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:

Cambak wrote:Ogryns, maybe?

I've heard a lot of bad things about them, so I've never taken the chance to field them.

Oh, and Rough Riders.

Who cares? I am working on an army entirely of RR, and will get my butt kicked every time.
Doesn't matter. I field 60 calvary models for under 750 points, and have a grand old charge? I win by C(ool)-points.

I'm actually curious as to how you manage this. Is there something I missed in the IG codex that allows you to take Rough Riders as Troops, or are you just ignoring the FoC with this one?

Special homebrew character (pretty generic commander, overcosted to avoid objections.) that allows them as Troops and Fast Attack.

How about making conscripts in general a troop choice and not a part of a platoon (which I never got btw...)

Who wouldn't take 300 guardsmen just once? And prob make them cost as much as a grot. Seeing as how they are just about as useful as one.

I challenge you all to fix ethereals and Aun'va.

I would think special rules to represent the greater good, teamwork, and synergy. But I'm not creative enough to do that without ripping off IG orders.

Maybe some sort of boost to units within in X range or units close to another friendly model get a enhancement?

SaintHazard wrote:

Eyclonus wrote:Stormboyz: Need 'eavy armour and a max squad size of 30, an additional point on Strength would be good too, but not completely making the unit into flying Nobz.

Except that then nobody would ever take Slugga Boyz, because you'd have a mob of 30 jump infantry with 4 attacks on the charge whose only drawback is that there's a chance that one model might die each turn.

Trukks would also be obsolete.

Eyclonus wrote:Looted Wagons: Make them Squadron capable

Why? They're too expensive as it is, why would I ever take more than one of them as a single choice?

What stormboyz lack is any sort of survivability, UNLESS you take zagstruk (lets assume that you do not, due to say tournament restrictions forbidding special characters) then you have a unit of 15 CC orks delivering a powerklaw behind enemy lines, if you deepstrike (or indeed run across table) then due to the lack of fleet you still have to wait a whole enemy turn before you can assault, by which time the unit is reduced to so few numbers from shooting that they are useless, or fleeing, or both! Maybe if all stormboyz had zaggy's special rule they would be a very competitive unit. Every time I've used them, and I take zaggy in a unit of 15, what tends to happen is this:
DS -> assault -> kill 1 unit -> get shot into oblivion during opponents turn because I am within assault range of everything (therefore in shooting range of everything) -> lose expensive unit!

All I'm saying is that they need something to make them a bit less fragile.



and burnas, they should have the option to take burnas (simply because I have kick-ass idea for a conversion that would be useless otherwise).

Burnas sound cool, nice idea.

I think that it makes sense that they're fragile, and instead should have a rule along these sorta lines.

Waaagh!!! Super Leap (I dunno about the name)

The squad must be on the board at the start of the Movement Hhase for this to be used.
The Stormboyz squad may attempt to deepstrike to any position within 18" of of one the unit's models.
If the squad lands successfully they may choose to not shoot in the Shooting Phase, and be allowed to assault in the Assault Phase. Every model however counts as landing in Difficult Terrain, forcing them to take a Dangerous Terrain test for every model in the unit.

If the squad suffers a DeepStrike Mishap they count as rolling a 1-2 on the DeepStrike Mishap table, as they crash into the ground avoiding enemies, smash into a wall/cliff, or are shot to death as they attempt to land on the enemy.

What do ya think of that?

xxBlazinGhostxx wrote:How about making conscripts in general a troop choice and not a part of a platoon (which I never got btw...)

Who wouldn't take 300 guardsmen just once? And prob make them cost as much as a grot. Seeing as how they are just about as useful as one.

Using normal infantry platoons without conscripts, it is wholly possibly to field something like 600 Guardsmen. 400 if you don't use special or heavy weapons, I think. I don't really feel like opening my codex and doing the math right now. The point is, regular infantry platoons let you field a LOT of Guardsmen.

asimo77 wrote:I challenge you all to fix ethereals and Aun'va.

I would think special rules to represent the greater good, teamwork, and synergy. But I'm not creative enough to do that without ripping off IG orders.

Maybe some sort of boost to units within in X range or units close to another friendly model get a enhancement?

I personally am a big fan of the idea of every Tau or Vespid with a strain leader within 24" taking all of their morale and pinning checks at the Ethereal's leadership... then make them more survivable by cheapening their Honor Guard (and keep the higher BS on the Honor Guard, justifying the Ethereal's cost) to give them an extra 12 wounds. Give Aun'va a wicked invulnerable save to compensate for him NOT getting a 12-man Honor Guard, and give Aun'va himself a rule similar to Calgar's God of War: all Tau or Vespids with a Strain Leader can choose to pass or fail any morale or pinning check they can be called on to take. Give Aun'va himself a kickass shooting attack (to compensate for lack of a FW honor guard, again) and call it a day.

Bam.

Ethereals and Space Pope are useful.

SaintHazard wrote:
I personally am a big fan of the idea of every Tau or Vespid with a strain leader within 24" taking all of their morale and pinning checks at the Ethereal's leadership... then make them more survivable by cheapening their Honor Guard (and keep the higher BS on the Honor Guard, justifying the Ethereal's cost) to give them an extra 12 wounds. Give Aun'va a wicked invulnerable save to compensate for him NOT getting a 12-man Honor Guard, and give Aun'va himself a rule similar to Calgar's God of War: all Tau or Vespids with a Strain Leader can choose to pass or fail any morale or pinning check they can be called on to take. Give Aun'va himself a kickass shooting attack (to compensate for lack of a FW honor guard, again) and call it a day.

Bam.

Ethereals and Space Pope are useful.

that made me laugh, a bit too much.


in all honesty, given the lack of CC in Tau armies, i'd love to lose a point in STR and add it to Toughness on all Suits for survivablility. It just doesnt seem right in my head for a freaken Gundam to have the reselience of a Bike

Guardians have already been mentioned, so I'll use the dice on the Fast Attack section and the dice says: Shining Spears.

Shining Spears are on jetbikes and are quite expensive, but still fragile. They come in small squads of at most 5. The best way to describe them is to say they are Jump-Pack equipped tactical marines who have non-initiative impairing Power Fists on charge only after which they are about as competent in melee as normal tactical marines who're armed with bolters.
The art of using them is limited to applying them only when there is no risk of getting charged after the combat has been won, or when you're able to make use of Hit and Run in the opponent's assault phase. Naturally, there are exceptions to these circumstances, but they are in general as few as when it's beneficial to charge with a Defender Guardian squad.

Next up: Support Weapon Platform.

^ So how would you change Shining Spears to be more competitive? So far you haven't actually said anything relevant to this thread.

SaintHazard wrote:^ So how would you change Shining Spears to be more competitive? So far you haven't actually said anything relevant to this thread.

Ah, sorry. Well, they're one of the most difficult cases. Not only are they overcosted, but also very difficult to use properly... well, the simplest approach is to change their CC weapons so that they're always power weapons, although I'm uncertain if that will make them efficient. Other ways include altering hit and run for them so that they're able to do one even if they wiped the target out, although that's still a risky move if you roll poorly.

I just think that first of all, that shining spears are just expensive. Especially for such a small squad.