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DooDoo wrote:I believe that NOVA did have a 3 color standard. It just had no impact on determining the best general like it usually does.

Best general has always been raw points... Some people just want BEST GENERAL to be the ebst cash grab prize. It angers some gamers that they didn't get the biggest prize.

And technically a 3 color paintjob can be 2 colors mixed in an airbrush sprayed over a white basecoat. That is 3 colors, but virtually an unpainted army. I like events that attempt to promote 'more than bare minimal' by having impact rankings. People do think twice and choose to bring that fully painted army opposed to that WIP with a barley legal 'prime job' if the event promotes it.

Which is why different formats are fine because they appeal to different players and people can then choose to participate in the different events.

Nkelsch - see all photos I linked, which are far from all ... in re: your comment from earlier with negativity tied about the appearance of NOVA armies.

I would say the spread of gorgeous --> halfassed was similar to what I saw at the Adepticon Championships this year, with a handful of true works of art ... a majority on display bases with solid painting ... and a handful of "feth yous" that comprised of three color minimum "automatic" work or subpar skills.

Obviously with way more attendees (nearly triple on a 40k:40k ratio) there were way more of each at Adepticon, so I'm not comparing totals here

Mike those pictures are obviously of other events that your trying to pawn off as your own

J/K

I actually only played a single army that I thought was below standard and that fellow was 15-16ish. But it still met the criteria. Actually the higher the table I played on the better painted the armies I faced. Weird....

MVBrandt wrote:Nkelsch - see all photos I linked, which are far from all ... in re: your comment from earlier with negativity tied about the appearance of NOVA armies.

I would say the spread of gorgeous --> halfassed was similar to what I saw at the Adepticon Championships this year, with a handful of true works of art ... a majority on display bases with solid painting ... and a handful of "feth yous" that comprised of three color minimum "automatic" work or subpar skills.

Obviously with way more attendees (nearly triple on a 40k:40k ratio) there were way more of each at Adepticon, so I'm not comparing totals here

Those armies are awesome... considering the majority of coverage I have seen have been of the 'questionable' paintschemes (baremetal Demon, black only LR,bareplastic termie), since some of them were people who made it to the finals, it made the event look like that was the norm, not the exception. I am glad that the event was not over-run by 'barley legal' armies attempting to skirt the appearance requirements.

That wasn't the final. That was the first game Stelek played against probably the only person flaunting the rules by putting 3 color strips on his unpainted figs. No one in the top 8 had an unpainted army.

Closest would be Dashofpeppers Pink horde since 2 of his BW's are still heavily black but they more than meet the painting standard.

Oh and the guy that flaunted the painting rules went 0-4.

NOVA Open - The Gold Standard? What does it mean for other tournament organizers?

What does it mean to me?

Quite a lot actually.

First, The new guy on the block with a new approach can succeed. Mmmm, fresh new ideas!

Second, There is a new style of event for players to attend. Diversity is good!

Third, There is no Gold Standard. There has been a shift for GW tournament play and now it is run by Independent Organizers. Independent = No Standard.


Good job Mike, welcome to the club!

/waves hand excitedly

HAIIIII!

mikhaila wrote:
(I got a MS in Statistics before running a game store, it helps.)

Now I understand. To successfull;y run a game store it helps to be Mad as a Hatter!

Excellent

(I loved statistics classes FYI)

nkelsch wrote:

MVBrandt wrote:Nkelsch - see all photos I linked, which are far from all ... in re: your comment from earlier with negativity tied about the appearance of NOVA armies.

I would say the spread of gorgeous --> halfassed was similar to what I saw at the Adepticon Championships this year, with a handful of true works of art ... a majority on display bases with solid painting ... and a handful of "feth yous" that comprised of three color minimum "automatic" work or subpar skills.

Obviously with way more attendees (nearly triple on a 40k:40k ratio) there were way more of each at Adepticon, so I'm not comparing totals here

Those armies are awesome... considering the majority of coverage I have seen have been of the 'questionable' paintschemes (baremetal Demon, black only LR,bareplastic termie), since some of them were people who made it to the finals, it made the event look like that was the norm, not the exception. I am glad that the event was not over-run by 'barley legal' armies attempting to skirt the appearance requirements.

That was MY army, I was placed against stelek (who obviously, blogged the game) and I only had 2 unpainted models (If you'd like an explination as to why the PURE BLACK LR was considered painted, I suggest reading your Machine Spirit Fluff.) which were my Daemon Prince and my Friends Nurgle LR. He just recently (Literally, about 8 hours before the event) gave me the model and I made some last minute edits to swap out my Vindi and my Termicide squads (all painted) for the DP and the Additional LR (As well as the squad of thousand sons). I was playing for fun, and at last minute, had to add things I did not intend to bring.

The other thousand sons player(yeah, there were 2 of us there...) had LEDs in all his MCs/Vehicles and one of the most impressive armies I have ever laid eyes on. Hell, almost every army I saw on all the tables was to an "Impressive-Or-Better" standard...

but, my ride from work is heading out the door right now, so I'll have to finish this post when I get back!

To Be Continued

Frazzled wrote:

mikhaila wrote:
(I got a MS in Statistics before running a game store, it helps.)

Now I understand. To successfull;y run a game store it helps to be Mad as a Hatter!

Excellent

(I loved statistics classes FYI)

Somehow I missed that post by mikahila the first time reading through the thread... that's awesome! Didn't know he had an MS in stats . And agree about the mad hatter part

Now that I've resisted nerd-raging on this thread for most of a day, I've calmed down about it to where I think I can type a coherent response. The first post is ridiculous! MVBrandt immediately responded pointing out how "soft scores" were used in the NOVA open. It's basically a moot thread!

Now about those fantasy army results break-outs, Mike... (just kidding, and seeing the results was great! but I am curious which armies fared the best, etc).

The beauty of NOVA is that, while soft scores were used for renaissance man, they played no part in the determination of the overall winner. These were separate and equal awards. I didnt understand that this was a commonplace event. It least it has not been in my experience.

For example, the title "Overall" winner implies that this is THE winner of the event while "Best General", by its connotation and reference to "Overall" is something less. This was not the case with NOVA.

That's ooooooooooold ground DooDoo, and imho Nova did so well by Not making this such a big issue. It wasn't 'Ard Boyz, all-or-nothing, balls-to-the-wall, bare plastic uberlistfest. But it wasn't something that you couldn't win without a pro-painted army. It was a nice compromise, and I think that's what made it so popular.

No point debating the meaning and/or significance of the term "overall" here- it's been done! "Renaissance man" was a nice touch, I thought

The only thing that all independant organizers should aspire to is transparency, as has been pointed out. Everyone should know how things are being scored and what to expect from the missions. Debate the pros and cons of VP vs KP all you want, the bottom line is that everyone knew what the missions were and could plan accordingly. Its when people get hit with "mystery scoring" that butthurt begins.

Get your packets out there early for everyone to digest and have a transparent scoring system. Everything else is TO discression.

To be fair to Phazael they have finally decided to at least move to a thumbs up/thumbs down system for his event which will pretty much fix the "soft score" syndrome that can happen. He's also been pretty diligent about changing the way BP's work so that people that go 5-0 (winning all the primaries) should beat a 4-1 person who gets more massacres which is important as well.

All I ask for from a TO is transparency and consistancy. I also do ask for not completely bunk missions (whether they make my army better or not) but to be fair that has only happened at one tournament this year out of 5 now so I guess I can't complain