Can I give BA bike squad chainswords?

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**Illumini**

SaintHazard wrote:I think Gwar! is pointing out that you basically said that circumventing the rules is okay as long as the opposing player lacks the knowledge or savvy to call you out on it.

May not have been what you meant, but that's what I got out of that comment as well.

You're not circumventing any rules. You are not gaining any advantage from this, it is purely an estetical choice. Of course I didn't mean that it is okay to cheat a new player, I just pointed out that veterans will know that those 2-3 ccw's in your squad mean nothing, while new players are the ones that might be confused. My point was that such players will probably be confused about a lot of stuff, and some ccw's on your bikers is probably going to be the smallest issue. (and from my own experience, even against very new players, it has not been an issue)

I might have worded myself poorly, I'm not a native english speaker

**SaintHazard**

SmackCakes wrote:Yet apparently in 40k they are all equal in having no effect.

No, they're not equal in that only one of the items on that list actually has rules.

SmackCakes wrote:So you're saying that my Space Marine bikers definitely CAN have broken bottles and frying pans? (that might not be so bad).

Again, no. There are no rules for broken bottles or frying pans. There ARE rules for chainswords, combat blades, and bayonets, because those items are specifically listed as "close combat weapons."

**SmackCakes**

SaintHazard wrote:Again, no. There are no rules for broken bottles or frying pans. There ARE rules for chainswords, combat blades, and bayonets, because those items are specifically listed as "close combat weapons."

No they are given as examples and followed by an etc... The rules state that all weapons fall into one of the two categories. Normal close combat weapons, and special weapons that have an effect. If a weapon is not listed as special then it has to be a normal weapon.

In any case there are no rules for chainswords. They are even given as an example of a weapon which has no rules. The book says: "chainsword ... do not confer any particular bonus to the model using them"

**Kurgash**

Here is what you do. Model the bolt pistols to have saw blades on the end that way you have your chainsword aesthetic AND not break any rules. If people ask wtf it is, say it's a chain pistol which is a bolt pistol duck taped to a chainsword. You don't get the two CCW bonus and everyone is happy. That or clarify ahead, whichever is easier.

**SaintHazard**

"Does not confer any particular bonus" is NOT the same thing as "does not have any rules."

Quite the opposite, in fact.

"Does not confer any particular bonus" is a rule that CCWs have.

That, and having two of them grants an extra attack in close combat.

CCWs have rules.

Eggbeaters and sharp codpieces do not.

**Kurgash**

SaintHazard wrote:"Does not confer any particular bonus" is NOT the same thing as "does not have any rules."

Quite the opposite, in fact.

"Does not confer any particular bonus" is a rule that CCWs have.

That, and having two of them grants an extra attack in close combat.

CCWs have rules.

Eggbeaters and sharp codpieces do not.

Then the path is clear. Stick pots and pans in their hands so they can beat their enemies to death like angry housewives.

**SmackCakes**

SaintHazard wrote:"Does not confer any particular bonus" is NOT the same thing as "does not have any rules."

Quite the opposite, in fact.

"Does not confer any particular bonus" is a rule that CCWs have.

That, and having two of them grants an extra attack in close combat.

CCWs have rules.

Eggbeaters and sharp codpieces do not.

The RAW do not limit normal CCW to the examples stated. The rules state that all CCW fall into one of the two categories.

CCW is what it is. Swords, Axes, Knives, Hammers, Nunchucks, Staffs, Chains, Pipes, Broken Bottles, Knuckle Dusters etc...

These things are all weapons and so would follow the rules for normal close combat weapons.

There are no specific rules for chainswords. They just follow the rules for generic melee weapons, which makes them no different to Knives and Wrenches in terms of rules.

Eggbeaters are a poor example, because they are stretching the definition of 'weapon'. An axe or knife is not.

**DeathReaper**

SmackCakes wrote:
Gwar! wrote:Rules as written, no, you cannot. They do not have a chainsword as an option, so you cannot have one.

I disagree with this. Tac squads and Scout squads come with knives, yet the codex says nothing about knives. Similarly chaos marines have spikes and horns.

All I can see from RAW is that bikes are not allowed a chainsword bolt pistol combination for the purposes of +1 attack. It doesn't say anywhere that they can't carry a blade or knife or chainsword or horns, for aesthetic purposes.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

SaintHazard wrote:It's simply inconsistent. If your bikers with chainswords Count As bikers with bolt pistols, does everything in your army with a chainsword count as having a bolt pistol instead? That's the issue.

The thing is the bikers with chainswords wouldn't count as bikers with bolt pistols, they would count as bikers with chainswords and bolt pistols. but they wouldn't count as having an extra attack for an additional CCW because they only have one free hand.

This means the chainsword actually has zero effect. So it is really just an aesthetic choice, which shouldn't interfere with the rules.

EDIT: before I get too deep into this, could anyone with the BA codex says if bike squads are automatically equipped with bolt pistols, or can they take bolt guns? I left my BA codex at my friends house, so I'm working from the vanilla codex right now, and that just says 'bolt pistols', but the BA one might be different?

BA bike squads come with Bolt Pistol (Which is used in CC like a CCW as per the rules) they do not get to swap out for Boltguns.

two bikers can replace their bolt pistols with a flamer, meltagun, or plasma gun.

and the sergeant can replace his bolt pistol with plasma pistol, power weapon, combi-melta, combi-flamer, combi-plasma, or a power fist.

with that said, as long as you clarify what the unit is/has at the beginning of a battle I would have no problem with you having a CCW modeled on your bikers. ask any TO's before hand though, or just make them removable (i find a bit of Blu-Tack ,reusable poster adhesive, works really well, and it comes in a lot of colours) I use Blu/Sticky tack on my tanks, it works well for my razorbacks.

**Waaaaghmaster**

I personally don't see why anyone would get their panties in a bunch over that.

A huge part of this hobby is the modeling aspects, and if someone said to me "I thought it would look cool for these bikers to have a chainsword or two, but it doesn't affect their rules" i'd be cool with it.
I honestly think the only people who would complain in this instance are anal retentive types who will always find something to complain about.