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Grundz wrote:

ductvader wrote:Stern with full GKT retinue and that also has Holocaust...that's two large templates in one assault.

Thats a unit full of awesome that will obviously roll a big squad of 5 point uselessness

You wanted an example and so I presented one...that is all.

ductvader wrote:

Grundz wrote:

ductvader wrote:Stern with full GKT retinue and that also has Holocaust...that's two large templates in one assault.

Thats a unit full of awesome that will obviously roll a big squad of 5 point uselessness

You wanted an example and so I presented one...that is all.

I specifically stated that elite cloes combat units will roll an IG squad, but not much else will. orc boys being the only actual example I can think of.

Depending on the stats and number of those CC elites, I think the power blobs could still take them. Look at Berzerkers. If the blob gets the charge then your looking at least four dead berzerkers, at the same inititave. Now 4 is just how many the PW should kill, so the rest of the squad might net another. A typical squad of Zerkers, runs ten so if you kill half, that is good even if you lose that squad at the end of combat.

Heaven help those CC elites that go after the blob. Most likly that is due to cover though.

exactly. Yes, power blobs are not indestructable. That fact does not, however, make them somehow weak and vulnerable and that infantry horde armies are bad. They're still insanely durable, even if, in certain circumstances, against certain units, they can be beat.

Plus, you have some degree of control of the battlefield. It doesnt' HAVE to be you just sitting there and eating charges. For example, I played a game where a 20-man power blob + PCS attacked a land raider full of khorne berzerkers. Despite losing SEVERAL guys to the land raider explosion, the power blob still charged in and beat the berzerkers (admittedly with like 2 models left, but still), and that was with pretty average luck.

If you can master your fate, power blobs are insanely good, and, if you can't, they're still pretty dang durable.

Also, I'd specifically like to note that against slugga boyz, once their waaugh is spent, the guardsmen attack first, meaning a 30-dude power blob that gets charged kills 6 of them before the boyz get to swing, which means they receive 24 fewer attacks on the charge.

Similiar thought:

I usually run 2 or 3, 30 man units (with commie's in each) with power weapons, and usually autocannons. The rest of my army are griffons, hydras, or whatever other heavy support i feel like stacking in the back line.

30 men for me seems to be the most usable squad size, it isn't so big that they are moving through cover every turn or have to stack up to get anywhere, and not so small that they are vulnerable. 3 squads blanket most of the table.

I hear of people doing things like having a 'ard boys list with 8 killpoints at 2500, or the above list with a dozen lascannons, ect. What kind of extra considerations should/have to be taken for these huge squad sizes that are a ton more expensive due to all the upgrades, lascannons and such. I mean with 90 or so infantry I feel crowded, and people talk of occasionally running 200 or more.

So, I traditionally run 3, 22-dude power blobs (priests). When they all go on the table, that's about as many men (including the PCSs, etc.) that I feel comfortable putting in a single deployment zone at a single time (otherwise I'm going to have to bunch up, and I don't like taking casualties to artillery). Were I to up the number of troops, I'd do one of two things.

- cut the number that get deployed by one power blob by using al'rahem. Actually, if I go for 4 power blobs, I can have 2 outflank with al'rahem while the other two show up on the other board edge.

- start with excess troops choices in reserve. Especially with an astropath, they're likely to show up in a timely manner, and it allows my entire front rank of dudes to charge forward, rather than needing to leave someone back to hold an objective.

On an unrelated note, I just now started considering taking more than one commissar in a blob. Yes, you get 9 fewer dudes of durability, but you get that extra power weapon for 45 points instead of 65 (and you're covered against obnoxious things like mind war picking out the single commissar). Honestly, I've found 20-man blobs to be sufficient, but only rather barely. Once my opponents start taking more anti-power-blob stuff, I think I'll up the size to 30.

Same here, 20 men is doable but the extra 10 security bodies is nice to have.

I play mainly against a guy that runs tons of 10 or 15 man marine squads, and another that runs chaos daemons, so those extra bodies come in real handy with that amount T4andT5 coming at me when combat is guarenteed to last several rounds.

Hmm, I didn't think daemons would be much of a problem for this army.

arinnoor wrote:Hmm, I didn't think daemons would be much of a problem for this army.

they really aren't, but it is inevitable that you get tied up by nurgle boys at some point, and they get 4+ poison rerolls against guard so it is reasonably painful, the combat takes like the entire game to resolve and i've pretty much consigned to one of my squads getting tied up every game, the others are more than enough to do the job.

Grundz wrote:the combat takes like the entire game to resolve and i've pretty much consigned to one of my squads getting tied up every game, the others are more than enough to do the job.

Right, I think this is actually one of the bigger risks for infantry horde. Blob squads can tarpit, but they can also be tarpitted. A single wraithlord charging into your lines will keep both units locked up for the entire game, but if you only have 1 other blob, you're actually going to be in rather serious trouble as the entire rest of their army only needs to deal with 1/2-2/3ds of the rest of yours.

I'd always recommend bringing at least 3 blobs for this and other reasons. It's also one of the reason I've been running 20-man blobs. For the points cost of upgrading all three blobs to 30-man blobs I can afford another whole 20-man blob. Fewer dudes, and less durability, but more flexible and doesn't run the above risk.

Ailaros wrote:

Grundz wrote:the combat takes like the entire game to resolve and i've pretty much consigned to one of my squads getting tied up every game, the others are more than enough to do the job.

Right, I think this is actually one of the bigger risks for infantry horde. Blob squads can tarpit, but they can also be tarpitted. A single wraithlord charging into your lines will keep both units locked up for the entire game, but if you only have 1 other blob, you're actually going to be in rather serious trouble as the entire rest of their army only needs to deal with 1/2-2/3ds of the rest of yours.

I'd always recommend bringing at least 3 blobs for this and other reasons. It's also one of the reason I've been running 20-man blobs. For the points cost of upgrading all three blobs to 30-man blobs I can afford another whole 20-man blob. Fewer dudes, and less durability, but more flexible and doesn't run the above risk.

A 31-man PW commissar blob is only 195 points. How is that ever 1/2 or 2/3rds of an entire army?

If 1/2 of your army is a single blob and it getting "tarpitted" is a problem, how does spending 100% of your points on tarpitable blobs become better? Makes no sense.

Ok, I'll throw in my £0.02 regarding the original question before I move onto the topic as to whether combined PIS (saying blobs just makes me feel odd) are worth their inclusion in an IG army.

First off, you can run all infantry IG. It's not too hard, and with some configuration can be made to work relatively effectively. You've already reached a fairly decent medium in that you've got a number of lascannons for heavy armour, a number of autocannons to deal with anything, and a ton of lasguns to whittle down hordes. This is a good start.

The main issue I see with this kind of army is its durability against other horde lists that not only strike first in CC, but are generally tougher and more durable than the Guard.

Yes, with your Commisar you do have staying power, but in reality all your really doing is making a lost combat protract for another turn or two. If you faced an Ork Green Tide for example you'd be lacking the effective anti-infantry to whittle down the horde, and even when they get to lasgun range your wounding on 5s. Regardless of the volume your throwing out, 4s then 5s does not equate to great odds; throw in a 5+ cover save *at least* from a Big Mek and your not looking at a lot of casualties.

Pure assault armies would annihlate this type of force, especially if they have ways to reduce the number of effective shooting phases to two or less; an IG army needs at *least* two/three turns of shooting on average to compensate for the inherent poor BS of a Guardsmen. I think even decent ranged armies would stand a good chance. Mobile mech armies like Blood Angels would only need to eradicte your HWSs and then could drive circles around your blobs, slowly killing them until time runs out.

I think that, whlst a pure-infantry IG army *can* be effective and certainly a sight to see on the table, it does definetely need some form of armour/artillery to support the squishes and prevent other, more manouverable/shooty forces, decimating those large squads prior to them becoming effective.

L. Wrex

P.S. I'm going to say something controversial now so those face-smashers amoungst you can ignore this bit...Those people who constantly keep their models spaced exactly 2" apart are annoying as feth. Not only does this slow the game down *incredibly*, but it makes the game a lot less appealing to look at and a lot less fun to play. Yes, its allowed by the rules but, personally, I think it takes away from the spirit of the game and makes the whole battlefield look like a giant, incoherent mess.

TheBloodGod wrote:A 31-man PW commissar blob is only 195 points. How is that ever 1/2 or 2/3rds of an entire army?

I've seen lists before where people only bring two blobs either because they have other stuff they want to spend points on and/or they take HUGE blobs.

TheBloodGod wrote:If 1/2 of your army is a single blob and it getting "tarpitted" is a problem, how does spending 100% of your points on tarpitable blobs become better? Makes no sense.

Because you're taking a bunch of smaller tarpittable units. A single enemy unit can only tarpit a single one of my units at the same time. 2 50-man blobs is much easier to tarpit than 5 20-man blobs.

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:Pure assault armies would annihlate this type of force, especially if they have ways to reduce the number of effective shooting phases to two or less; an IG army needs at *least* two/three turns of shooting on average to compensate for the inherent poor BS of a Guardsmen.

Why? Yeah, if you catch a slugga boys squad and stick around in close combat, you don't get to shoot them. You DO get to charge them, though, so it's not like you're absolutely screwed if you can't shoot them.

Ailaros wrote:
I've seen lists before where people only bring two blobs either because they have other stuff they want to spend points on and/or they take HUGE blobs.

Again... what's the point of giving advice that's not relevant in almost any case? A 56-man blob is only 325 points. In a 1500 game that's more than 4 such units. In the standard 2k which GW balances all games around, that's 6 blobs of 56+ models. Everyone already knows that if you buy every single option without knowing what it does or even using it is a bad idea, and that's the only possible way to have a blob reduce your army significantly. Guardsmen do not cost much.

Ailaros wrote:
You DO get to charge them, though, so it's not like you're absolutely screwed if you can't shoot them.

Nope. Less than 50% of the time you get to charge them. They have the same 6" assault range as you, but they can Waagh for Fleet one turn. It's easy to justify any assault army when you make the completely wrong assumption that you always get the charge.

TheBloodGod wrote: Less than 50% of the time you get to charge them. They have the same 6" assault range as you, but they can Waagh for Fleet one turn. It's easy to justify any assault army when you make the completely wrong assumption that you always get the charge.

I'm not.

If you'd actually read what I say before angrily blowing wind at it, you'd note that my point is that they're very good when you have control of your circumstances, and that they are very durable even when they're not. If your depth of strategic thinking is just sitting around letting blobs get waaaughed, then yeah, I guess I wouldn't recommend them for you. Of course, there's nothing I could recommend that would be particularly good with this level of commitment to preservation of forces on the field.

TheBloodGod wrote: In the standard 2k which GW balances all games around, that's.......

All released statements I have ever seen pointed towards 1500 as being the "standard".

Points vary from region to region. Do not worry what other may consider a standard amount of points.

Ailaros actually plays blob guard so his advice might be relevant. Remember that many points will be sunk into Company (CCS) and platoon (PCS) command squads. Many blob players are aggressive with their blobs so put their long range weapons into heavy weapon teams (HWT).

For those people that have actually played (not math or theory hammered) IG Blobs, do you find HWs better in the Blobs or in HWTs. How does Special Weapon Teams (SWT) work for you? Do you run flamer PCS or melta PCS or even something different? Do you even bother with vets?

I assume most blob players use some sort of heavy support choice, what is most effective (in your opinion)?

Just because I don't want to be left out, I too actually play blob guard.

I rarely use HWTs. I use a Vendetta and Meltaguns/Plasma Guns. Sometimes a single Vet squad just for fun. Other than that it it's Melta or Plasma CCS and PCS.

I might have a Vendetta and a few Chimeras, but I think two 40-man power-blobs and a 30-man backup-blob allows for me to say; "I play Blob Guard!"

I play with a single combined PIS on my backfeld with 2 GLs, 2 ACs and a Commisar. Their job is purely to hold my home objective whilst the rest of my army trundles off and mashes stuff.

Its proven very effective for me, and gives me a solid anchor to command board position whilst still adding the army's long-range firepower, so yes, I do include HWs in my combined PIS; but only because I refuse to assault with my IG. If I was to assault with them then, obvously, I'd eschew the heavy weapons in favour of power weapons etc etc.

L. Wrex

Right, if you're running "shooty blobs", then there isn't as much of a purpose to bring HWSs. If you're running power blobs, then you should generally avoid HWT's like the plague*

I used to run every platoon with a PCS and a SWS. I started finding that needlessly redundant, though. Plus, that starts jacking up the KP you're offering. Were I not running priests, I'd probably start re-including a few. As for HWSs with power blobs... meh. I used to run a few and they did basically nothing, while absorbing an infantry squad / PIS+commissar in points. In the end, I dumped all 3 of them in order to play to strengths, rather than weaknesses.



*yes, if you have a huge blob, HWT's can get more troops into combat by using the 2" rule with a huge base. That said, it's the power weapons which are doing most of the damage anyways...

The problems I see are these:

-the game in a tournament will never end and a quicker army will jump to the objectives before you can and bunker down.

-the army, utilizing heavy weapons, will have a hard time being mobile at all on the field. Yes, the run run run order can be cool but those 5 guys die and I take away your absolute extra move

-terrain is the greatest tool you will rely on but, a tool you cannot control. You will need this either to gain cover or to gain line of sight for hwt

-any time you see a psyker battle squad, you will lose. Other guard armies will not see you as a threat. A tank army will have more flame on every chimera. More templates than you can imagine. What I'm getting at is that against another guard army, the deciding factor would be first turn.


Things I see good in this army are:

-multiple-part death star. Giant hordes of men with more wounds than most other armies can generate.

-you can quite easily blow down the other army with pure firepower in a few turns.



Now, for a beginner player, this army will suit them nicely but I can see this army being on eBay within the year cuz it is not fun to play unless you mix up tactics and nullify the killing power of this build.

The armies that can reliably wipe through this guard army are most likely any nth army. Most notably orks, ba, sw, even a competent necron player could prevail, the tyranids new tervigon power build might prevail because of outnumbering the it hordes themselves.

The last two were maybe but I can easily see them pulling through.

The problem with powerblobs is, they suffer from the problem all large units have, they just cannot bring much killing power in relation to the space they cover and they have speed issues. I f you oppose a patient competent mech player, he will outflank (not the "outflank" reserve move ) and outgun you easily. If he recognizes that blobs are still guardsman and that he can use shooting weaponry on them instead of assaulting them, they have no tarpitting effect, the enemy is able to shoot after 12" moving so he brings more guns to bear. His tanks are also much better contesters. so you will fight each turn (in the worst case) 1 blob vs an army. 3 or 4 blobs will hang around and try to reach the enemy. This is (as the german western front WW1 commander says) a "blood pump". You will send in blob after blob to close the gap and you will get slaughtered blob by blob. You just dont have the initiative. You can only gain it back due to ordered long range weaponry if you can crush the enemies mobility in early game. Otherwise you will run to death without doing anything useful.

If the enemy is stupid enough to throw his best troops in an unprepared assault then you will win the attrition battle. Of course. Many guys do this, because it is burned in their heads: Guardsmen suck in CC, so I dont need miuch material to kill them. This is just wrong.

Blobs must be either annihilated with pure force in an assault, surrounded and shot to pieces or killed slowly and patiently with constant fire and a finishing assault against the remnants.
And every army has enough potential to do this.

Foot guard looks great on the battlefield though. But in low to medium point games they will have a hard time because they wont have blob power AND enough heavy weaponry.

I'm pretty sure the big scare with blob guard is tons of guys rushing at you while the big guns in back keep you guessing on what to attack first.

You shoot the blobS and get gunned down. You shoot the guns and get mobbed. You try to split and it becomes ineffective.

Idk. It would be nice to actually see a list for this to really critique it correctly

Nenya97 wrote:
Idk. It would be nice to actually see a list for this to really critique it correctly

I could post up some exact lists when I get back from work, but have realized my spreadsheet I use for guard costs is mis-costing some units.

in 1500pts, iirc I will usually run

3-4X 30 man blobs with commisar and 4 power weapons, commisar has meltas
3-4X command squads with plasma or melta in chimera's
1X HQ with straken in chimera w/ melta , sometimes switch him out for CREEEEEED

with fire support from
3X griffons
some hydras, heavy weapon teams, or if its a killteam game i'll stick some autocannons in the squads.

My game plan is generally sit back and fire for 2 turns with First rank/2nd rank, then move forward and take on the shambles of the enemy forces, sitting back and shooting with counter attack granted by straken is doable, but i'm increasingly aware that assaulting is usually the better option. blobs can straight up outshoot and out-cc some armies, but can be taken apart reasonably easily by elite close combat, focus fire, or some psychic abilities, as well as the power/size ratio being rather poor, an army that can focus itself on one unit/flank at a time will roll throught he lines.
They aren't the be all/end all of armies like we've said, i dont know why people keep focusing on that, this is no leafblower. but with more and more tourneys increasing in popularity for missions that punish mech, they will become more prevailent.

Nenya97 wrote:the game in a tournament will never end and a quicker army will jump to the objectives before you can and bunker down.

Except that foot armies are not significantly slower than tread armies.

Nenya97 wrote:any time you see a psyker battle squad, you will lose. Other guard armies will not see you as a threat. A tank army will have more flame on every chimera. More templates than you can imagine. What I'm getting at is that against another guard army, the deciding factor would be first turn.

What?

PBSs would be good against blob armies if they weren't all stubborn.

Any other guard army who doesn't see 150 guardsmen armed to the teeth with meltaguns and power weapons as a threat is a fool.

Yes, mech lists get templates, but that's what proper spacing is about. Losing a few guys here and there to heavy flamer fire doesn't matter when you bring so many.

If anything, foot horde guard armies care much less about who gets first turn than do other types of guard armies, as they're much more durable.

-Nazdreg- wrote:The problem with powerblobs is, they suffer from the problem all large units have, they just cannot bring much killing power in relation to the space they cover and they have speed issues. I f you oppose a patient competent mech player, he will outflank (not the "outflank" reserve move ) and outgun you easily. If he recognizes that blobs are still guardsman and that he can use shooting weaponry on them instead of assaulting them, they have no tarpitting effect, the enemy is able to shoot after 12" moving so he brings more guns to bear. His tanks are also much better contesters. so you will fight each turn (in the worst case) 1 blob vs an army.

Well, yeah, if you're doing it wrong.

Remember, it's the power weapons that are important to get into close combat while casualties can be taken from anywhere in the blob. If you line them up in columns, rather than rows, you can get all your high damage stuff in without having to worry about bunching up.

And no, tanks are not better contesters when a blob player always has a hedge of melta around every objective.

Plus, as mentioned above, foot is not significantly slower than tread. If you're talking about foot v. 36" moving skimmer, then yeah, but tread armies will have the same problems.

-Nazdreg- wrote: must be either annihilated with pure force in an assault, surrounded and shot to pieces or killed slowly and patiently with constant fire and a finishing assault against the remnants.
And every army has enough potential to do this.

Tell me an army that CAN'T be annihilated with pure force of assault, or surrounded and shot to pieces.

Nenya97 wrote:I'm pretty sure the big scare with blob guard is tons of guys rushing at you while the big guns in back keep you guessing on what to attack first.

Yes. That or if you just bring infantry, it's hard to figure out what to use your limited anti-horde abilities to shoot at first. That and being frustrated as you shoot lascannons at 30-man blobs.

Nenya97 wrote:Idk. It would be nice to actually see a list for this to really critique it correctly

here'a a sample list, and here's an example of how it fights.

Except that foot armies are not significantly slower than tread armies.

OK lets compare something.

Chimera meltas vs. Footmeltas. Action range:

Footmelta has a range of up to 6"+shooting, so total range of 18", effective range of 12".
Chim melta as moving 12", disembarking 2"+ base length+ shooting thats a total of almost 27" total range and 21" effective range.

Yes, Foot armies dont advance significantly slower, but they act much slower. So they have to choose to run OR to shoot/assault. Mech can move 12" disembark AND shoot. open topped mech can even move 12" disembark and assault.

And foot guard is always on the receiving end. It only wins if it has still enough men left after receiving the whole game.

Remember, it's the power weapons that are important to get into close combat while casualties can be taken from anywhere in the blob. If you line them up in columns, rather than rows, you can get all your high damage stuff in without having to worry about bunching up.

And no, tanks are not better contesters when a blob player always has a hedge of melta around every objective.

good old conga line, who doesnt know it...
But still, foot material takes more space than mech material. Even more if you space all of them 2" (which will result in bloating your squads that will result in lacking punch. 1 killed blob will leave a big hole (a single line of 20 spaced men (60"...) is not possible if the mech player knows anything about the game, so you will have perhaps double line column which will result in 8" + distance from the first blob to the enemy MINIMUM (if you space). so if the enemy stays more than 4" out you wont be able to assault with second blob...)

A chimera takes the place of a chimera which is about 3x4" so you will engage a blob with 3 or 4 chimeras (substitute with rhinos if you like) at the same time without risking to get counter charged if you manage to kill 20 guardsmen. And 20 guardsmen fear getting shot by what is in 4 rhinos/chimeras + back fire support.

If you deploy your squads in each other you will have big movement issues if you do it correctly (squad by squad) or it will result in less than 2" spacing

Tell me an army that CAN'T be annihilated with pure force of assault, or surrounded and shot to pieces.

I dont talk about an army, I talk about a unit.
Even Mass Orks have this problem. They come with T4 2 attacks each, furious charge an 18" gun and an instantkilling powerweapon. And they are in fact CHEAPER than their IG counterpart.
Still mass orks arent top level. Mech guard however is. Must be a reason...

orcs come with 3 attacks each, 6+ save, /one/ power weapon per squad, and little support fire, its a different animal.

also to make another point, this thread isn't about that mech guard is "better" than foot guard.

well the thread is about footguard making sense or not, isnt it?
So why cant we compare them to mech guard, which seem to make sense.

Shootaboyz have 2 attacks each 4+ cover save as guardsmen 1 powerweapon instead of 4 (resulting in the same number of wounds though+instantkill)

They are supported by lootaz, which can be compared with ac teams, they dont have an LC equivalent, yes and no meltas, yes. But they have killakans, Claws and so on. Shooting melta in 6" or assaulting a claw with s9 up into armour 10 is not really a big deal.

Mass orks work quite the same way, sloogging over to the enemy, killing mobility with lootaz and wiping the rest. This stops working if there is terrain on the board and the enemy has some fast units hidden behind waiting for a mob to crush it. And it stops immediately if walkers are involved in that force.

Dont get me wrong, I love footguard on the board, but I seriously doubt their effectiveness in less than 2k battles (assuming 2 players on the same level).
However in more than 2k battles they could possibly bring enough fire support to silence the enemy while they advance.

-Nazdreg- wrote:well the thread is about footguard making sense or not, isnt it?
So why cant we compare them to mech guard, which seem to make sense.

You're right, a foot guard list didn't make it to ard boys semifinals beyond 90% of mech lists. It was leafblower all the way down and up, I dont even think anyone that didn't play how you like got past deployment in the entire tourney.

-Nazdreg- wrote:Yes, Foot armies dont advance significantly slower, but they act much slower. So they have to choose to run OR to shoot/assault. Mech can move 12" disembark AND shoot. open topped mech can even move 12" disembark and assault.

While this is true, you've got to remember that there is limited board space. Limited board space which infantry armies tend to absorb.

What's the point in being able to run quickly if there's nowhere to run to?

And foot guard is always on the receiving end. It only wins if it has still enough men left after receiving the whole game.

-Nazdreg- wrote:But still, foot material takes more space than mech material.

Most definitely. So?

-Nazdreg- wrote: Even more if you space all of them 2" (which will result in bloating your squads that will result in lacking punch.

but it's the power weapons that do the killing, not the rest of the worthless abblative wounds

-Nazdreg- wrote:1 killed blob will leave a big hole (a single line of 20 spaced men (60"...) is not possible if the mech player knows anything about the game, so you will have perhaps double line column which will result in 8" + distance from the first blob to the enemy MINIMUM (if you space). so if the enemy stays more than 4" out you wont be able to assault with second blob...)

So?

-Nazdreg- wrote:A chimera takes the place of a chimera which is about 3x4" so you will engage a blob with 3 or 4 chimeras (substitute with rhinos if you like) at the same time without risking to get counter charged if you manage to kill 20 guardsmen. And 20 guardsmen fear getting shot by what is in 4 rhinos/chimeras + back fire support.

Sure, but you're talking about an imbalance of poitns here. 4 chimera costs 200 points. 4 rhinos full of marines costs a LOT of points (unless you're just talking about storm bolters in which case they're not a serious thread).

Even with more points of chimeras, there firepower isn't that great, and if the whole point is that it's easy for most of your army to focus on a single blob, well, that's why you bring a lot of them, and why you use conga lines.

If someone is loosing consistently to transport armies (especially due to transports themselves), they're doing something seriously wrong.

-Nazdreg- wrote:If you deploy your squads in each other you will have big movement issues if you do it correctly (squad by squad) or it will result in less than 2" spacing

I've been playing infantry-heavy armies a lot, and I simply haven't found this to be true. The idea of getting funneled into tiny spaces and then getting blown up by artillery may be a serious concern for a world war 1 general, but I really haven't ever seen this fear materialize.

-Nazdreg- wrote:Still mass orks arent top level. Mech guard however is. Must be a reason...

Yeah, because mech guard is tough to stop, especially if you go about it wrong. The goodness of mech says nothing about some imagined crappiness of infantry hordes.

Plus, there are a TON of unconsidered variables, the first of which is how long it takes to take a turn. That you don't see foot guard at tourneys I'd imagine has much more to do with time limits than the crappiness of foot armies...