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the T'au arn't enough of a threat to warrent an Imperator Titan's deployment.

Quite literally, theT'au are stuck with the area of land they currently have as their method of FTL/Warp travel can't take them farther then what they have already.

Current fluff restricted,yes.

Mantas have heavy railguns...they might make a dent or two.

If I was in charge, everything would warrent the deployment of Imperators, including the Lunch run.

Something neat to think about. The Tau are known to have a life span considerably shorter then that of human. They have a slow method of FTL travel given their inability to fully imerse in the warp. They also lack a method for long distance real time communication. How effective would they even be when deployed beyond their sphere of influence.


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agnosto wrote:Current fluff restricted,yes.

Mantas have heavy railguns...they might make a dent or two.

The thing with voids shields though is that their toughness increase exponentialy as the size of the object they are placed on increases.

Yeah, with Warp travel sometimes taking 5-7 years depending on the destination and distance the T'au armies age quite quickly.


i think this is why the T'au bring so much non-millitary equipment with them when on campaign.

the planets are settled by the T'au Fire cast when they get there.

Baring some major changes in the fluff, I dont forsee the Tau being able to challenge the Imperium anytime soon.

Something else to consider, if they keep trying to "peacefully" subvert the rule of the Imperium on Imperial worlds, they may eventually draw the notice of the inqusition.

It would all be an easy fix if they introduce a new allied race that has warp-travel. They, GW, really shot themselves in the foot with the current fluff indicating no access to the warp, even through allies...

Catyrpelius wrote:If I was in charge, everything would warrent the deployment of Imperators, including the Lunch run.

Something neat to think about. The Tau are known to have a life span considerably shorter then that of human. They have a slow method of FTL travel given their inability to fully imerse in the warp. They also lack a method for long distance real time communication. How effective would they even be when deployed beyond their sphere of influence.


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agnosto wrote:Current fluff restricted,yes.

Mantas have heavy railguns...they might make a dent or two.

The thing with voids shields though is that their toughness increase exponentialy as the size of the object they are placed on increases.

Well there was the one traitor Emperator (i think) titan in the book Titanicus that had a faulty spot in its voids the size of a grape, yet even then it rampaged for an hour or so and killed off a few more loyalist titans

Grey Templar wrote:the T'au are so freeakin lucky that Abbadon keeps buzzing Cadia.

otherwise the IoM would have come and slaughtered the T'au like the cattle they are a long time ago.


it probably wouldn't have taken more then 60-70 years to do it either.

The Imperium has spent the past 10,000 years not managing to conquer any of their basic threats.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:the T'au are so freeakin lucky that Abbadon keeps buzzing Cadia.

otherwise the IoM would have come and slaughtered the T'au like the cattle they are a long time ago.


it probably wouldn't have taken more then 60-70 years to do it either.

The Imperium has spent the past 10,000 years not managing to conquer any of their basic threats.

See, they operate on direct orders and the man in charge was rather silent on his throne..


Seriously, the IoM regularly ends the unwanted existence of soo many threats and nobody thanks them.
-orks complain they can't start a waagh where they please
-elfs complain the humans don't understand them
-nids complain about the menue
-necrons complain....silently so we don't know yet
-chaos complains a lot but always returns to their hideout to sulk
-so Tau and their complaints how advanced and good they are perfectly fit in here
and? Who should be the first to be dealt with? Any volunteers?

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Where I thought an example would give us a hint which size of conflict we look at, sadly there is none given.
So back to assuming its an all out conflict, thus a 'expansion force' of the little evil alien empire of the eastern fringe vs a 'counter crusade' of the
real big evil human imperium of the whole galaxy.
Put them both at one theathre of war and you get:
- a 1000 human soldiers for every single one Tau fire caste/Auxillary warrior
- a 1000 human vehicles for every single one Tau vehicle.
I would guess the chances aren't on the side of the small upcoming empire.....

Maybe a 'local' conflict would be better.
A single backwater world, which the Tau want but the IoM does not care that much except for some bound by ancient oaths to defend.
But again, if the IoM enters a conflict, they don't leave until their opponent is gone.

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If strength 4 is bolters (assault rifles firing high caliber incendary rounds) the Strenth 5 is quite a problem. Not to mention the Railguns.

Suicidal Cheez wrote:If strength 4 is bolters (assault rifles firing high caliber incendary rounds) the Strenth 5 is quite a problem. Not to mention the Railguns.

Yes, but railguns can only fire so rapidly before they're destroyed. What does it matter if one Hammerhead kills 3 Leman Russ tanks before dying, if there are 10 Leman Russes for every Hammerhead? The Tau are still going to lose. Same with pulse rifles. Sure a Firewarrior could kill 10 Guardsmen....but there are a hundred Guardsmen per Fire Warrior.

It's like World War II. German tanks could kill lots of Allied tanks before being knocked out, but the victory still went to the Allies. Why? Because even though they lost 5 Shermans per Panther knocked out, their order of battle had 10 Shermans per Panther. It doesn't matter how good your weapon is if your enemy outnumbers you so completely and utterly that you can't achieve the kill rate needed to defeat them.

Tazz Azrael wrote:Well there was the one traitor Emperator (i think) titan in the book Titanicus that had a faulty spot in its voids the size of a grape, yet even then it rampaged for an hour or so and killed off a few more loyalist titans

It wasn't a weak spot it was the fact that 2 titan battle groups all fired at the same 10 meter squared part of the shield, that's a lot of firepower on not too much shield.

purplefood wrote:

Tazz Azrael wrote:Well there was the one traitor Imperator (i think) titan in the book Titanicus that had a faulty spot in its voids the size of a grape, yet even then it rampaged for an hour or so and killed off a few more loyalist titans

It wasn't a weak spot it was the fact that 2 titan battle groups all fired at the same 10 meter squared part of the shield, that's a lot of firepower on not too much shield.

I think he meant they focused on the weakest spot of the shield and I believe it was a slightly imperfect part of the shields mentioned in this scene in Titanicus.

I wish that there was more fluff from the tau point of view.
It would go a long way in helping people understand issues todo with the tau

4M2A wrote:First question depends on the size of the planet. Tau expand in waves so chances are when they decide to expand they make sure they are capable of it and use whatever force is required to get it done.

Earth wouldn't stand a chance if the Tau wanted to attack us. Railguns kill imperial tanks, they would destroy almost anything we have. Pulse rifles would punch through any kind of armour we give our soldiers and we would have real problems catching them if we wanted to attack back.

But as Kilkrazy said it wouldn't ever get to that. Tau have so much to offer us, we would have no reason to refuse. All our energy, fuel, food and health problems could be resolved and all we would have to do is provide good or contribute services.

I'm sure that, in the end, all our social problems will come back to us and we'll use the new found tech to a) destroy our closest neighbour and b) destroy the trade relationship with the T'au so our closest neighbour won't get all that juicy tech.
And then we have the various minor militant groups (freedom fighters / terrorists) which will definitely not get a piece of the cake trying to sabotage it.

The reason Warhammer's fluff is so silly beyond reason is that the Empire of Man is depicted as ultra strong with armies able to defeat anything - yet all threats remain - and the fact that of all the 2 million or so planets you don't get a reasonable amount of them rebelling (for sake of argument, let's put a reasonable amount of planets rebelling at say... 2 million or so). Read the news paper next morning, a planet is a large place, and if it is capable of supporting earth-density populations, then it's capable of supporting earth-density politics.
40K's fluff would be a lot more believable if the IoM consisted of significant number of nations, with the wars between them and all that glory.

Would also explain why you get Black Templars fighting Ultramarines more often than either of them fight Orks...

1hadhq wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Tazz Azrael wrote:Well there was the one traitor Imperator (i think) titan in the book Titanicus that had a faulty spot in its voids the size of a grape, yet even then it rampaged for an hour or so and killed off a few more loyalist titans

It wasn't a weak spot it was the fact that 2 titan battle groups all fired at the same 10 meter squared part of the shield, that's a lot of firepower on not too much shield.

I think he meant they focused on the weakest spot of the shield and I believe it was a slightly imperfect part of the shields mentioned in this scene in Titanicus.

Nah that was a different bit as well the leadery person of the Titan legion(can't remember his title) took his warlord against 3 reavers and won because of weaknesses in 2 and just killing the last the old fashioned way.

Grey Templar wrote:the T'au arn't enough of a threat to warrent an Imperator Titan's deployment.

Quite literally, theT'au are stuck with the area of land they currently have as their method of FTL/Warp travel can't take them farther then what they have already.

Explains why they deployed (and subsequently lost) Titans during the Taros campaign

the thing is the T'au don't really warrent titans in the first place.

the Impierium has learned that big giant machines are railgun magnets.

better that those big giant machines be cheap and numerous.


10 million russes should handle railguns quite nicely.

You know how little chance the Tau would stand against a fully prepared Imperium? That's how much chance modern day Earth would probably stand agains the Tau.

As for the chances of the Tau beating the IoM... Maybe when pigs fly (And no, chaos daemons do not count.)

ChrisWWII wrote:As I recall, the last time the Tau dealt with Necrons it was after a Necron force destroyed a splinter of a hive fleet. The Tau proceeded to try and 'welcome' their saviors by throwing a massive celebration for the Necrons as they landed.

This ended exactly as you think it would.

They had a great fiesta with partyhats?

Catyrpelius wrote:Something else to consider, if they keep trying to "peacefully" subvert the rule of the Imperium on Imperial worlds, they may eventually draw the notice of the inqusition.

They have.

The Ordos Xenos tries to stop Tau infiltration/negotiation, as seen in Ciaphas Cain: For the Emperor. Granted, they sent a fairly un-influential Inquisitor, but it happened.

And the Tau do try to peacefully subvert the rule of the Imperium (What do you think they're trading technology for?). In response, the Imperium tells them to **** off, because the Imperium knows the Tau's culture and species undermines the Imperial doctrine.

Actually it was more like a horrible harvest of the Tau planet, but I digress.

Don't forget that while a Titan is a railgun magnet, you'll have to be unloading railgun after railgun after railgun into it just to bring its void shield downs, and then to destroy it. And while all your railguns are busy pounding the Titan.....Whose shooting the little guys? The Leman Russes, Predators, Chimera's and Rhino's that are now swamping the Tau firing line?

As the Uplifting Primer tells us......Beware the Tau! They'll sacrifice your babies to their gods!

Alternatly the IoM could just decided that Exterminatus is needed on every Tau planet. Since the Tau lack the strength to face the IoM in a naval battle, it should be pretty quick and easy.

They failed to do it twice before. They've failed to do it on every single Ork, Tyranid, Chaos and Necron planet.

Kilkrazy wrote:They failed to do it twice before. They've failed to do it on every single Ork, Tyranid, Chaos and Necron planet.

Really tell us exterminating every non-imperial planet is an option for GW?

OK, so be it. Next stop warhammer 30.000, new edition purged of all xenos.......




But I second the idea of tons of guardsmen. Just swamp them with bodies until the Tau are immobilized and then have a field day.

Kilkrazy wrote:They failed to do it twice before. They've failed to do it on every single Ork, Tyranid, Chaos and Necron planet.

Not to mention some Tyranid bugs managed to survive the Exterminatus.....

They're tough lil' critters.

Ledabot wrote:I wish that there was more fluff from the tau point of view.
It would go a long way in helping people understand issues todo with the tau

You are far too optimistic. Experience shows that Tau discussions are mostly dominated by people who haven't even bothered to read the Codex nor believe in conventional logic

I really hope their next codex does give us a greater look at Tau society. There are too many people who think Tau are communist (not quite sure why) and that this makes them bad.

4M2A wrote:I really hope their next codex does give us a greater look at Tau society. There are too many people who think Tau are communist (not quite sure why) and that this makes them bad.

They ARE communistic in that they are an ideal kind of....Soviet/PRC communist society. There are classes, yes, but within those classes, everyone sets aside their desire for personal gain in order to serve the 'Greater Good'. No, this doesn't make them bad, anymore than me being Republican makes me a bad person.

Not to mention, it's kind of the hat that people choose to make fun of, just like people make fun of Ultramarines being the stars of everything, lasguns being little better than flashlights, etc. etc.

Kroothawk wrote:

Ledabot wrote:I wish that there was more fluff from the tau point of view.
It would go a long way in helping people understand issues todo with the tau

You are far too optimistic. Experience shows that Tau discussions are mostly dominated by people who haven't even bothered to read the Codex nor believe in conventional logic

Ive read the codex heeps.
Just wish there was novels or sumthin for them

Chris

They are kinda comunist but much more utilitarianist
google greater good

I think the thing we need to remember here is that Communism is a political and economic system aimed at giving all control of resources over to the government (On the basis that the government redistributes them equally to the people). The Tau are collectivists, in that they have a society, culture, and moral code that encourages interdependence over the sake of individualism.

Also, off-topic but...

The Tau have Space Pope.

The Emperor is Space Jesus.

The Tau, who believe in Space Pope, fight the Imperium, who believe in Space Jesus. Therefore, Space Pope is against Space Jesus.

Obviously, the only conclusion is that Games Workshop hates Catholics. OHMYGOD

I dont think that true somehow