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No offence meant UNREAL, but why does every statement you make sound like you know what you're facing in advance and just tailor your list?

That *is* just the way some groups play. I know when I first started the hobby, that was a big part of what we enjoyed- playing in a small group and trying to out-guess your opponent on army construction.

So i guess i'm being a noob by trying to make the list that could potentially face all the locals without loosing/winning to badly/greatly against any.

i don't tailor(unless you insult my Ogres, then the gloves come off) my lists.


a month ago i KNEW i would be facing Skaven. Ogres have this really cheap magic item called the Bramir Statue. Bearer causes Terror to all models from the WoC, DoC, Skaven, and Beastmen army books and confers a -2 Ld penelty. i did not take this item and never will.


it is fun when both players have tailored their lists to each others army, but when the opponent hasn't done the same/didin't know what you would be bringing it really isn't fun.

My group does do prearranged games(mostly because we play 40k 90% of the time and don't always bring our Fantesy armies), but it is rare for anyone to tailor. we write balanced lists that can take on just about anything.

HoverBoy wrote:So i guess i'm being a noob by trying to make the list that could potentially face all the locals without loosing/winning to badly/greatly against any.

I don't see how this is a logical reaction to what I said:

Red_Zeke wrote:That *is* just the way some groups play.

I haven't tailored a list in years, but I know that some groups do, and are totally fine with that. I was just pointing out that you could give UNREALpwnage the benefit of the doubt.

I was just asking a question, because i was qurious.

I tailor my list to use against my friend when we play 7k games, he uses O&G. I use the same basic list for most normal sized games (200-3000). So only tailor my list to play him in those big games because we plan them out a week or so in advance. We have some serious rivalry games there. I have beat him the past 7 times we have played and ended his 20 game win streak at the hobby store, other than that i have never tailored a list.

UNREALPwnage wrote:@Black ork unit, my friend runs a hoard of 50 of them and i haven't lost my unit to it yet, black orks are good and grimgore is amazing but when i play orks i use a wight king with nightshroud and sword of kings to tie grimgore up.

So, you fix your list based on opponent's army...that's real skill there...and all I'd do is accept the wight king challenge with unit champ, make way grimgor in front of your vamp, and /lol. Play better opponents.

We tailor our list to beat eachother, that is the only time i do, we play a huge 5-10k game every other weekend and it is major competition. It isnt being a dush, it is just trying to win the game. We both know what the other takes and plan our list accordingly. I wont do it against other people because i dont know who i am going to play till i show up.

"douche"

And as above - wight king would be out for one turn and the vamp is dead.

True, i am just speaking out of personal experience, out of 15 games runing the VC Death Squad it has not died and has won me many games

UNREALPwnage wrote:True, i am just speaking out of personal experience, out of 15 games runing the VC Death Squad it has not died and has won me many games

I beat Archaon both times I've faced him with swarms. Against Bat Swarms, he unleased the daemon for the extra attacks (I was replacing losses as fast as he could kill them).
With in 2 rounds of combat, he was dead; 1 wound for the bats, the rest by his own hand. (though snotlings + gork'll fix it was much funnier).

It isn't that I'm Awesome and Bats rule. It's that my opponent made a very poor choice.
If you keep winning with that death star, I'm going to bet it's because your opponent(s) don't recognize the threat, and don't deal with it properly.

-Matt

Best win was the teams double tournemet at the store, i killing blowed 3 characters to win me the game. I had 16 models left on the field and they had over 140. Best game ever. Sword of kings killing blow on a 5/6 is a life saver especially when they cast the spell that makes your sixes ones

HawaiiMatt wrote:If you keep winning with that death star, I'm going to bet it's because your opponent(s) don't recognize the threat, and don't deal with it properly.

Well when you play by the rules of not using tricksy magic, dirty war machines, or feeding it pointless units, of course you're going to have a hard time dealing with it! That 1200-point slab of metal is dead killy!

I am playing a 4k doubles game and the opposition is fielding:
50 witch elves w/ always strikes first banner,
crom hellborn,
and a bsb in the same unit,

i am sending:
block of 30 GG,
Vamp Lord W/ Sword of Bloodshed, Infinite hatred, red fury, and 4+ ward crown,
Wight king w/ Nightshroud, Sword of kings,
and a bsb w/ regen banner against it,

I run my guys 7 Wide and he is in a hoard, am i screwed or do i have a chance? I will post the results friday. I wish i had something else to send to fight it, but my friends ork hoards will get cut to pecies along with the rest of our armies.

What lore should i use to weaken them before combat, i was thinking death, so i can kill their heroes.

UNREALPwnage wrote:What lore should i use to weaken them before combat, i was thinking death, so i can kill their heroes.

Theyre elves, get dwellers if you can, if not any template spell aside from pit should work, this may be a good place for lore of fire too, flamecage and firestorm should do tons of damage even if they have the cauldron ward.

Well if you want killy unit power
500 clanrat slaves with spears 1250 points and yes that would kill you granted I'd never personally do such a thing but you wouldnt get through it

I cant take life but i can take any other lore. I am playing Dark Elves and Vampire Counts, my partner plays O&G and i am playing VC for the tournement.

Any other advice?

Not really sure what you're asking for here. You aren't interested in any warnings on the dangers of fielding a deathstar, because you're not letting us point out the havoc that certain spells could play on that unit.

Nor are you interested in people giving you deathstar units that can beat it, because when someone posted Grimgor & black orc unit that could do it, you just said 'nuh uh' I avoid Grimgor when he's on the field. So really, what are you after?

Is is 2K per player or 4K per player?
You'll want to work out with the O&G player who goes heavy in magic, so that one of you isn't stranded for dice.

If you want to use team work...
Take 10 spirit hosts, and run right at the super block. Support with 3 or 4 units of night goblins with fanatics. Throw the fanatics through the spirit hosts and into the witches. You should get at least 9D6 hits on the witches, killing on 2's. You take nothing in return. The BSB and the unit can't hurt you, and you should score about 10 wounds in combat.

Oh, don't forget the vampire lord with the parried blades and the helm of commandment. Nothing like tossing around a WS10.

The best way to deal with ~50 poisoned re-roll to hit always strike first attacks, is just be ethereal. Now you're down to just 7-9 S10 attacks, not nearly as mean.


I think the O&G actually has a shot at killing it in melee.
Take a goblin warboss on gigantic spider, fencers swords, glittering armor, effigy of mork (WS10, -2 to be hit).
Goblin Big boss, gigantic spider, light armor, spiteful shield, tricksy tinket (rolls of 1 to hit cause a S5 hit, no ward saves in base to base).
Then, a boat load of night goblins, with hand weapon and shield (for the parry), and nets.

Put the two characters side by side. Let the general take the challenges, and that should force as many as 15 attacks onto the spiteful shield. This won't do much damage, but it will pull hits off of the easier to kill rank and file. With nets, those witches will only be wounding on 5's. Actually, more big boss on gigantic spiders is a good idea. The T4, combined with much better armor will brunt a good portion of those 50 poison attacks.

Being a goblin by nature, I think throwing fanatics through my ethereal buddies is the best bet.


-Matt

Fencers Blades+Helm of commandment = brutal
if you really want to be evil throw in a corpse cart and alot of zombies and watch your opponent cry at your WS10 always strikes first zombies (and people say zombies are junk) Yeah sure they have no armor and S2 but hey although if you wanted to be safer just do the same with skelies as for other things, spirit hosts will definately be able to keep destructive units at bay or hey might even kill them both of which are very good. As for who goes magic heavy well, VC need the magic their necromancy is a big thing for them. However ork WAAAGH! magic is also very destructive so that is a hard choice

It is 2k per player and a fixed list for the tournement. I have forbiden lore on one of my vampires and was wondering which one would help slaughter the witch elf deathstar becasue i know i ill lose a lot of guys fighting it. I am also aware that any other unit we my partner and i were to send at it would be eaisily torn to pices. So what works best to kill his witch elves.

As above then - although the chances of somonee letting you get fanatics off at them is slim. DE have Harpies for that duty....

UNREALPwnage wrote:It is 2k per player and a fixed list for the tournement. I have forbiden lore on one of my vampires and was wondering which one would help slaughter the witch elf deathstar becasue i know i ill lose a lot of guys fighting it. I am also aware that any other unit we my partner and i were to send at it would be eaisily torn to pices. So what works best to kill his witch elves.

How many witch elves are we talking in this deathstar?

-EDIT- my bad I just noticed the deathstar was listed

How about curse of the midnight wind (heavens) it cuts down on poison severely as only the 6s from the re-rolling count, by my math witches with hatred loose about 40-60% of the total poisoned wounds the would normally cause, and then they are stuck relying on S3. Throw this spell and a high T unit at them and watch the fun.

I'm gonna agree with HoverBoy, also does anyone find it funny that vampires with forbidden lore can even use the lore of heavens, and the lore of light?

HoverBoy wrote:How about curse of the midnight wind (heavens) it cuts down on poison severely as only the 6s from the re-rolling count, by my math witches with hatred loose about 40-60% of the total poisoned wounds the would normally cause, and then they are stuck relying on S3. Throw this spell and a high T unit at them and watch the fun.

The first spell successfully cast at that unit each phase is dispelled on a 4+.
That is an awesome dice drain in the new magic system.
Considering that it is a 4K game, and you'll have an Orc player itching for dice, I don't know if targeting the witches is the best choice.

If the only thing you are looking for is what lore to take, take lore of vampire. The spells are easier to cast, which is good, since you won't be facing a level 3 or level 4 elf (only 150 points of lords left after the witch queen). More, easier to cast spells will be you're friend. If you do nothing but curse of years and wind of undeath, you'll be golden.

-Matt

also realize that Power dice are split evenly between players in doubles tournaments. you can't give your friend your power dice and neither can he.

you will have 6 dice at most to play with and might have only 1-3


this is why Dwarves are terrible allies in doubles tournaments except with other dwarves. the Dwarves lose their +2 bonus to dispell and they suck half the dice fromt their allies power pool.

I thought the rules for allies in the BRB where used, which would make TK and Dwarves great allies for magic armies. But if the TO says otherwise, well then they're split.