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AbaddonFidelis wrote:they're free on assault terminators. chaos and imperial terminators w/lightning claws end up costing the same since chaos terminators are 30 points base.

Ah, I see. Fortunately, we have the advantage of possibly having 6 attacks per model on the charge (With rerolls)

yeah. chaos termies are a bit more ferocious arent they.

Indeed. That set-up isn't really worth it at all though

For a unit of five...You'd be paying

30x5> 150 points
+champions > 75 points
+ Sets of LCs 10x5> 50
+ MOK> 30

You're paying 305 points for that unit of 1 wound models...Good luck

yeah aspiring champions in terminator armor are junk. mark of khorne is something I usually dont go for either but w/e its nice to know its there if you need it.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:yeah aspiring champions in terminator armor are junk. mark of khorne is something I usually dont go for either but w/e its nice to know its there if you need it.

Personally, I think chaos terminators are a little more versatile than loyalists, which is one of the major perks of our codex, IMO.

We can take this:
Terminator+ Chainfist and combi-melta
Terminator+ Chainfist and Combi-Melta
Terminator+ Power Fist and combi-plasma

For 145 points. If that isn't a good tank hunter unit,I dunno what is

But anyway, this i getting off topic.

they're pretty strong. hard to argue with storm shields though.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Assault terminators are basically superior in every way

Terminators really aren't good gun totes at all, what with regular old storm bolters and the option for an autocannon and all that jazz.

Assault terminators are usually just complete rape on the field, especially when they pop out of redeemer/crusader with multiple thunder hammers and lightning claws. You can guarantee they'll destroy the other unit, or any tanks or dreadnoughts in their way

Regular old storm bolters? I would disagree. Storm bolters are amazing. They are certainly much better than regular bolters. How can you say that terminators aren't good gun totes? They are relentless, so if they have the assault cannon or the cyclone missile launcher they can move and shoot (and still use their storm bolters). The only thing not good about tactical terminators is that there are units that do equally good in shooting for less points. But they are still a great unit.

storm bolters are just double barreled pea shooters. a 10 man squad of these guys opening up on marines will kill like.... two of them. they'll murder light infantry out in the open of course, but so will just about every other gun in 40k so no help there. samus is right. tactical terminators have ok shooting at best.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:storm bolters are just double barreled pea shooters. a 10 man squad of these guys opening up on marines will kill like.... two of them. they'll murder light infantry out in the open of course, but so will just about every other gun in 40k so no help there. samus is right. tactical terminators have ok shooting at best.

I beg to differ. You forget that Terminators are toting nice heavy weapons and are relentless. Assuming a 10 man squad, thats 2 cyclones firing kraks. Thats 3 dead marines alone, plus another 2 from storm bolters. Half the unit gone, they can assault and clean up the rest with powerfists. The same unit can wipe out a 20 man squad of boys easily

yeah if you give them heavy weapon upgrades they're better. but do you really want to pay 460 points to shoot 4 krak missiles/8 assault cannon rounds + 16 bolter shots? that's a quarter of your army.

Playing as Black Templars I can only say this: Lightning Claw Terminators with Furious Charge rocks! Add in the fact that we get an army-wide preferred enemy from the Emperor's Champion (assuming you take AAC, NMTO, but if you don't you're most likely doing something wrong) and you've got something really scary. Assuming 4LC 1 TH/SS to prevent tarpitting, that's 16 S5 I5 power weapon attacks on the charge that reroll everything!

AbaddonFidelis wrote:yeah if you give them heavy weapon upgrades they're better. but do you really want to pay 460 points to shoot 4 krak missiles/8 assault cannon rounds + 16 bolter shots? that's a quarter of your army.

If you using cyclones (the logical choice imo) thats 4 frag/krak missiles and 20 bolter shots on the move, followed up by a 9x powerfist assault if needed. Plus this unit is VERY hard to eradicate (killing 5 terminators is managable, a group of 10 is pretty difficult), just send them toward and objective and watch your opponent pull his hair out.

I will admit its not a competative choice, but it is fun to use

well like other people said its not that its a bad unit. there are just more aggressive things you can do with those points.

scubasteve04 wrote:

AbaddonFidelis wrote:storm bolters are just double barreled pea shooters. a 10 man squad of these guys opening up on marines will kill like.... two of them. they'll murder light infantry out in the open of course, but so will just about every other gun in 40k so no help there. samus is right. tactical terminators have ok shooting at best.

I beg to differ. You forget that Terminators are toting nice heavy weapons and are relentless. Assuming a 10 man squad, thats 2 cyclones firing kraks. Thats 3 dead marines alone, plus another 2 from storm bolters. Half the unit gone, they can assault and clean up the rest with powerfists. The same unit can wipe out a 20 man squad of boys easily

First of all, no one takes units of ten terminators. Second, twin linked bolters are far more interestign than storm bolters. Storm bolters might get an extra shot, but being able to re-roll a miss is much more satisfying. The cyclone missile launcher is fine, but I really wouldn't want to take a unit of tactical terminators just to get it.


Basically, assault terminators are better. They get an extra attack for a reason, not to shoot their their little guns into a densly packed unit of anything. The autocannon can be used well too, but..It's an autocannon...A sub-par weapon in the first place.

Samus_aran115 wrote:

scubasteve04 wrote:

AbaddonFidelis wrote:storm bolters are just double barreled pea shooters. a 10 man squad of these guys opening up on marines will kill like.... two of them. they'll murder light infantry out in the open of course, but so will just about every other gun in 40k so no help there. samus is right. tactical terminators have ok shooting at best.

I beg to differ. You forget that Terminators are toting nice heavy weapons and are relentless. Assuming a 10 man squad, thats 2 cyclones firing kraks. Thats 3 dead marines alone, plus another 2 from storm bolters. Half the unit gone, they can assault and clean up the rest with powerfists. The same unit can wipe out a 20 man squad of boys easily

First of all, no one takes units of ten terminators. Second, twin linked bolters are far more interestign than storm bolters. Storm bolters might get an extra shot, but being able to re-roll a miss is much more satisfying. The cyclone missile launcher is fine, but I really wouldn't want to take a unit of tactical terminators just to get it.


Basically, assault terminators are better. They get an extra attack for a reason, not to shoot their their little guns into a densly packed unit of anything. The autocannon can be used well too, but..It's an autocannon...A sub-par weapon in the first place.

Ok, I am assuming you are talking about a Land Raider crusader, and yes hurricane bolters are cool. This day and age though, I find myself having a hard time keeping a Land Raider on the table anymore, with so much anti tank (can someone say 16+ dark lances). Running both 1x LR and 5x Assault terms versus 10x terms, I find the 10x Terms more resiliant (unless your opponent has very specialised weaponry for terminators).

As far as autocannons go, I assume your talking about assault cannons. We are discussing loyalist Terminators right?

Samus_aran115 wrote:Second, twin linked bolters are far more interestign than storm bolters. Storm bolters might get an extra shot, but being able to re-roll a miss is much more satisfying.

Chaos Termis have the downside of being only fake relentless, though, which means that unlike loyalist storm bolters, their TL Bolters/combi-plasmas can't do moving fire at 24", which is a serious drawback unless they're in a land raider.

MekanobSamael wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:Second, twin linked bolters are far more interestign than storm bolters. Storm bolters might get an extra shot, but being able to re-roll a miss is much more satisfying.

Chaos Termis have the downside of being only fake relentless, though, which means that unlike loyalist storm bolters, their TL Bolters/combi-plasmas can't do moving fire at 24", which is a serious drawback unless they're in a land raider.

I thought T-Armor counted as a stable platform, or am I just confusing that with Obliterators? I've been in Pakistan for three months without a codex handy and I've got memory problems on top of that.

10 tactical termies will kill 10 assault termies given two rounds of shooting (and will lose given one round of shooting). Yes you could use a land raider to protect the assault termies but then you are losing half of the points of your termies.

Tactical terminators are extremely useful vs hoard units, can kill monstrous creatures from out behind their guards (they get to kill fexes from range very well), can kill transports from afar when there is nobody to assault, and are dangerous to dreads (even the av 13 variety).

Assault termies can do none of the above. In exchange they are very good at blunting dedicated assault units such as incubi, biker command squads, thunder wolf calvary, and other assault terminators.

They have different uses and both are good at what they do. Yes, there are other units that do what tactical terminators do, but none that do it while maintaining the flexibility and survivability of terminators.

First of all, no one takes units of ten terminators

Mine have never failed to do well except in the games where multiple executioners destroy them from range.

MekanobSamael wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:Second, twin linked bolters are far more interestign than storm bolters. Storm bolters might get an extra shot, but being able to re-roll a miss is much more satisfying.

Chaos Termis have the downside of being only fake relentless, though, which means that unlike loyalist storm bolters, their TL Bolters/combi-plasmas can't do moving fire at 24", which is a serious drawback unless they're in a land raider.

I'm pretty sure they have it... It lets them move and fire the RAC

I think always going for assault terminators is just not the way to do it. Are they better in alot of cases? Sure they are. Are they ALWAYS better? No. Ive played against ALOT of SM players with my Orks (surprise right lol) and Ive had my teef kicked in more by tactical termies shooting the hell out of my units first and assaulting/letting me assault, then by assault terminators.

Im not saying its a walk in the park agaisnt assault termies, but against hordes the assault termies just dont do so well.

MekanobSamael wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:Second, twin linked bolters are far more interestign than storm bolters. Storm bolters might get an extra shot, but being able to re-roll a miss is much more satisfying.

Chaos Termis have the downside of being only fake relentless, though, which means that unlike loyalist storm bolters, their TL Bolters/combi-plasmas can't do moving fire at 24", which is a serious drawback unless they're in a land raider.

chaos terminators are relentless just like imperials. they just dont get rapid fire outside of 12". combi bolters are better than storm bolters inside of 12" though because they're twin linked and rapid fire.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:

MekanobSamael wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:Second, twin linked bolters are far more interestign than storm bolters. Storm bolters might get an extra shot, but being able to re-roll a miss is much more satisfying.

Chaos Termis have the downside of being only fake relentless, though, which means that unlike loyalist storm bolters, their TL Bolters/combi-plasmas can't do moving fire at 24", which is a serious drawback unless they're in a land raider.

chaos terminators are relentless just like imperials. they just dont get rapid fire outside of 12". combi bolters are better than storm bolters inside of 12" though because they're twin linked and rapid fire.

No, Chaos Terminators (just like Black Templars terminators, interestingly enough) are not relentless. They have a special rule allowing them to move and fire heavy weapons. Had they been relentless, they would have been allowed to, for example, charge after firing heavy weapons, which they currently may not.

wow you're right.... I just looked it up. the only difference I think that it would make, based on the way the rule is worded, is that you cant move and shoot outside of 12" with your combi weapons....

And, as I noted, that you can't assault after rapid firing or firing heavy weapons.

models in terminator armor ... may assault after firing rapid fire and heavy weapons. page 86

Assault Terminators have many strong points so no need to elaborate there.


Tactical Terminators are frowned upon because they don't seem as nice. they do have a role that often gets bypassed.

Flamers and Assault cannons are terrible weapons for them. simply because they are so close ranged the terminators are vulnerable to getting assaulted by something with lots of power weapons and with only a 5++ save they will melt quickly. Tactical terminators need to stand off and shoot those Stormbolters.

the best weapon for them is the Clyclone missile launcher. one of the most undercosted weapons in the SM codex. for the same price as the Assault cannon you get 2 Frag or Krak missiles in ADDITION to their Stormbolter(other weapons you swap the stormbolter for)

10 Terminators with 2 clyclones can pump out 20 Str4 Ap5 bolter rounds AND 4 Frag or Krak missiles. infantry and vehicles don't stand a chance against this fusilade. in addition these are missile shots that can move while firing. this firepower is also protected by 2+ armor and 5+ invuln saves.


if you are running a shooty space marine army and don't need your elite slots for Dreadnoughts you really should consider these guys. you can run a unit of assault terminators to protect them too.

I'm going to be trying out a combination of things posted here. One of the Terminator squads I'm planning to use is a 10 man squad with 1 Assault Cannon and 1 Cyclone. The kicker is I plan to put Lysander in there with them. That way I'll be putting out 18 shots with a re-roll plus the assault cannon plus the 2 missiles.
The second unit is a Terminator Unit with 4 LCs and 2 TH/SS with Shrike. Because they're with Shrike they have the infiltrator USR and Fleet. That means that I can probably assault you on the first turn if I'm within 15" of you at the start of the 1st turn. For larger games I'm thinking of 6 LCs and 4 TH/SS. With Shrike it should make most units very uncomfortable.
The 2 characters are a little cheaper than LRs but I think they enhance the units quite nicely.