Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

mech is the metagame. can you do anything to armor over 11? no. therefore, my argument is quite valid. plague marines can drop 3 melta shots, which can pop a land raider.

If you want lesser daemons, theres a codex called chaos daemons. you are playing chaos space marines. focus on what you have best:

superior troop choices (any of the gods are good)
more melta per squad
daemonic possession
kharn
ahriman
lash
t6 models
more 4+ invulnerable saves than any other codex

The first list is good, but i would drop the lesser demons, you should have enough points for some icons and Obliterators

As with most of the people in this thread, I agree that the first list looks better.

I started playing a (mostly) DG list a few months ago, and have really only played a few games against my friends Eldar list, but have found that despite how hard to kill the Plague Marines are, they are in turn hard-pressed to kill anything on their own.

The VIP's in my army in just about every game have been Obliterators, being almost as tough to kill as the Plague Marines, but bringing vastly superior weaponry. I know you're trying to stay fluffy, but would you consider a small squad of Oblits? I don't think I could stand to take mine out at this point, they've been far too useful.

Well seeing as how there's an argument on the very topic of lesser daemons in another part of the forum, I'm not going fuel another argument.

The daemons will be play tested and compared to other options.

As far as Obliterators are concerned, I may consider them based upon how the list performs.

So far I have 2 games down on my playtesting with the original List 1. The first one I massacred my opponent (tabled in 3 turns), the other a somewhat better result for my opponent was still a victory.

The list I ran into was the following:

H.Q.

Rune Priest
Chooser, LL, TW -110

Rhune Priest
Bolter,Chooser, LL, MH -110

Rune Priest
MB, Chooser, LL, SC -115

Troops

Grey Hunters 5x
Melta, Las/Plas Razorback -150

Grey Hunters 5x
Melta, Las/Plas Razorback -150

Grey Hunters 5x
Melta, Las/Plas Razorback -150

Grey Hunters 5x
Melta, Las/Plas Razorback -150

Grey Hunters 5x
Melta, Assault Razorback -150

Grey Hunters 5x
Melta, Assault Razorback -150

Heavy Support

Long Fangs 5x
4x Missile Launchers, Assault Razorback -190

Long Fangs 5x
4x Missile Launchers, Las/Plas Razorback -190

Long Fangs 5x
4x Missile Launchers, Las/Plas Razorback -190

Total: 1835

First game was Seize Ground, Dawn of War, by turn 2, I had a Daemon Prince munching on Long Fangs and he was too preoccupied to bring him down. Lesser Daemons captured 2 Objectives, PM were on a 3rd and he was stuck on 1 Objective but conceeded unable to deal with the PM and DP's. Second game was annihilation, pitched battle. Terrain kept me alive long enough to deliver everyone. Overall, maybe he wasn't the best player but the list is pretty simple to use and doesn't as for much from the player.

Skavenknight wrote:mech is the metagame. can you do anything to armor over 11? no. therefore, my argument is quite valid. plague marines can drop 3 melta shots, which can pop a land raider.

If you want lesser daemons, theres a codex called chaos daemons. you are playing chaos space marines. focus on what you have best:

superior troop choices (any of the gods are good)
more melta per squad
daemonic possession
kharn
ahriman
lash
t6 models
more 4+ invulnerable saves than any other codex

This has to be said.

Lesser daemons are a godsend for goign to ground on objectives.
kharns alright
ahriman sucks
lhow many T6 models are in that codex? mhm.
You only have to pay 23 points to get that 4+ inv.

TL Shaggy wrote:

Skavenknight wrote:mech is the metagame. can you do anything to armor over 11? no. therefore, my argument is quite valid. plague marines can drop 3 melta shots, which can pop a land raider.

If you want lesser daemons, theres a codex called chaos daemons. you are playing chaos space marines. focus on what you have best:

superior troop choices (any of the gods are good)
more melta per squad
daemonic possession
kharn
ahriman
lash
t6 models
more 4+ invulnerable saves than any other codex

This has to be said.

Lesser daemons are a godsend for goign to ground on objectives.
kharns alright
ahriman sucks
lhow many T6 models are in that codex? mhm.
You only have to pay 23 points to get that 4+ inv.

+1

QFT.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Skavenknight wrote:mech is the metagame. can you do anything to armor over 11? no. therefore, my argument is quite valid. plague marines can drop 3 melta shots, which can pop a land raider.

If you want lesser daemons, theres a codex called chaos daemons. you are playing chaos space marines. focus on what you have best:

superior troop choices (any of the gods are good)
more melta per squad
daemonic possession
kharn
ahriman
lash
t6 models
more 4+ invulnerable saves than any other codex

Overcosted troop choices, inferior to marines due to lack of ATSKNF.

Check BA, sisters, eldar, IG... any codex with melta really. All of these codexes can get either 2 melta in a 5 man squad, or 3 in a 10 man squad. How do you have more, again? Plus CSM lack any reasonably costed fast melta, which is the best type (bikes and raptors just cost too much)

Demonic posession is good.

Kharn is good fo his points, making him eternal would fix him up and make him excellent.

And yeah, Ahriman is balls.

Lash is not as great as people think it is,

How many t6 models do you have, exactly? Are you sure you weren't thinking of tyranids when you wrote that?

If you wanna spam 4+ invuls (I have no idea why you would, but ok) you can get horrors for 17pts as opposed to Thousand sons for 23. And yeah, chaos daemons have 9 units with a 4+ invul or better, so you got that wrong too.

Were you thinking when you wrote this??

Ahriman is a monster if you had a brain in your skull. Lash may have lost steam, but it is still lash. t6? nurgle princes, nurgle bikers. i count 32 that could have t(4)6 t(5)6.

pink horrors also dont have t4, inferno bolts, winds of chaos, a force weapon, and a 3+ armor save.

I was thinking he was going to a tournament to win.

Ahriman can be pretty nasty...except for the fact that Nurgle princes are faster and deadlier in the grand scheme of things. In order for Ahriman to be deadliest he has to be up close and unleashing his powers, problem is, at that range everyone in their mother will be shutting down anywhere from 50% of his powers on up.

Nurgle Bikers are awesome...yet they still die just as easily to Plasma, Vindicators and well just about anything that shoots at Marines.

Lash is just a dead horse most of the times now. It'll fit a small niche in the overall game (you said so yourself, mech is the metagame) and leave you hanging until you de-mech an army. Which is better served by Warptime Princes anyway.

And on the topic of 3 shot Plague Marines...we're looking at ~200 points for that in a rhino. That's 5 Plague Marines with 2 Melta and Champion with Combi-Melta in a Rhino...yeah, not cutting it. Spamming isn't going to save the lack of mobility that the army is going to have. Besides, who else has Deep Striking units that can assault and score at 13 points a piece. Also, if someone focuses their attention on killing my 7 Daemons and it keeps my Prince or Plagues un-touched...how is that not a win?

Skavenknight wrote:Ahriman is a monster if you had a brain in your skull. Lash may have lost steam, but it is still lash. t6? nurgle princes, nurgle bikers. i count 32 that could have t(4)6 t(5)6.

pink horrors also dont have t4, inferno bolts, winds of chaos, a force weapon, and a 3+ armor save.

I was thinking he was going to a tournament to win.

How is ahriman good at 200+ points/. Im dying to know.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Skavenknight wrote:Ahriman is a monster if you had a brain in your skull. Lash may have lost steam, but it is still lash. t6? nurgle princes, nurgle bikers. i count 32 that could have t(4)6 t(5)6.

pink horrors also dont have t4, inferno bolts, winds of chaos, a force weapon, and a 3+ armor save.

I was thinking he was going to a tournament to win.

How is a 200+ points ahriman good?
Im dying to know

Skavenknight wrote:Ahriman is a monster if you had a brain in your skull. Lash may have lost steam, but it is still lash. t6? nurgle princes, nurgle bikers. i count 32 that could have t(4)6 t(5)6.

pink horrors also dont have t4, inferno bolts, winds of chaos, a force weapon, and a 3+ armor save.

I was thinking he was going to a tournament to win.

Ahriman is a joke at 200+ points, who dies to the first power fist he is unfortunate enough to meet.

Yep, lash is still the noobslayer it has always been.

Great, you listed 2 units What are you talking about, 32 units that could have t6?? Are there even that many units in the codex??

Yeah, inferno bolts are so fething awesome when everyone has cover these days, so your ap3 bolters are about as useful as a fething inflatable submarine. Yeah, and pink horrors dont cost 150+ pts for a unit of 5.

He is going to a tournament, but if he follows your advice of taking ahriman and spamming TSons I'm pretty sure he wont be winning.

Jabbdo wrote:

Skavenknight wrote:Ahriman is a monster if you had a brain in your skull. Lash may have lost steam, but it is still lash. t6? nurgle princes, nurgle bikers. i count 32 that could have t(4)6 t(5)6.

pink horrors also dont have t4, inferno bolts, winds of chaos, a force weapon, and a 3+ armor save.

I was thinking he was going to a tournament to win.

Ahriman is a joke at 200+ points, who dies to the first power fist he is unfortunate enough to meet.

Yep, lash is still the noobslayer it has always been.

Great, you listed 2 units What are you talking about, 32 units that could have t6?? Are there even that many units in the codex??

Yeah, inferno bolts are so fething awesome when everyone has cover these days, so your ap3 bolters are about as useful as a fething inflatable submarine. Yeah, and pink horrors dont cost 150+ pts for a unit of 5.

He is going to a tournament, but if he follows your advice of taking ahriman and spamming TSons I'm pretty sure he wont be winning.

Well said. Theres a certain degree of cooperation that comes from chaos lists. Get some solid aggressors in the list and back them up with fire magnets ( Dprince / vindi) and some firepower like obis.
And take lesser daemons in low numbers if you can. Drop em in objective range and go to ground. Enjoy that 3+ against shooting and never running away,

Jabbdo wrote:
Yeah, and pink horrors dont cost 150+ pts for a unit of 5.

Actually, I think a thousand sons squad of 5 with wind of chaos is closer to 200 points.

Chaos CAN spam melta. 5 PM with 2 meltas, asp with combi melta and rhino with combi melta. That IS a lot of melta. That doesn't mean it's effective. I would have to say, what makes CSM special and different from regular marines, is that they get MCs (max 3) to throw in with their marines. It is unique to them. Almost everything else in that book can be replicated more effectively in other books. Even obliterators aren't that great, their only bonus being their flexibility, which unfortunately is rarely taken into consideration when people build their lists. If your obliterators are gonna end up taking lascannon shots all game, how good use of those points is that?

How effective is the CSM codex's unique stuff? Well dunno.

Agree but i still love obis.