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Manchu wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote: up until the eldars empire only a small portion of races had decadent lives, the majority lived hard lives

This doesn't seem at all convincing. It's reminds me of old people saynig "you young people today!"

the eldar had everything sorted my technology, so they sat around doing nothing, when this got boring they slowly turned into what would be called dark eldar in 40k. why is it not convincing? 'young people today' do have easier lives but nowhere near as easy as the eldar did, nearly every eldar in an all powerful galaxy spanning empire lived hedonistic lives everyday and they are all highly psychic, its a pretty clear explanation.

No, I mean how old people complain about young people being morally degenerate and yet we know that people in the past were just as lascivious (by their own account) as anyone in the present. The story of the "birth of Slaanesh" seems a bit like something some weirdo prude off a Craftworld would tell . . . oh wait, it is. I haven't read the new DE dex as of yet (and this wasn't covered too well in the last edition) so I don't know if they tell the same story.

In any case, that interprtation entails something like a big fundraising thermometer labled "PERVERSION!" where doing nasty things makes the red bit shoot up until it reaches the top and Slaanesh pops out. Ridiculous. So who was the Eldar who raped one too many slaves? Had he not just raped that one last slave, and of course all the others also left off, there'd be no Slaanesh. Really? Wow, I bet that guy was embarassed.

Really, this is just the sort of thing Craftworlders need to rationalize their bizarre, culty shenanigans. It's an "I told you so" myth.

Manchu wrote:No, I mean how old people complain about young people being morally degenerate and yet we know that people in the past were just as lascivious (by their own account) as anyone in the present. The story of the "birth of Slaanesh" seems a bit like something some weirdo prude off a Craftworld would tell . . . oh wait, it is. I haven't read the new DE dex as of yet (and this wasn't covered too well in the last edition) so I don't know if they tell the same story.

In any case, that interprtation entails something like a big fundraising thermometer labled "PERVERSION!" where doing nasty things makes the red bit shoot up until it reaches the top and Slaanesh pops out. Ridiculous. So who was the Eldar who raped one too many slaves? Had he not just raped that one last slave, and of course all the others also left off, there'd be no Slaanesh. Really? Wow, I bet that guy was embarassed.

Really, this is just the sort of thing Craftworlders need to rationalize their bizarre, culty shenanigans. It's an "I told you so" myth.

The birth of slaanesh is pretty well documented, when the hedonistic life style of the eldar started to take hold small warp storms everywhere started to crop up, the 'story' is actually universal history not a myth or legend. the birth of slaanesh caused a massive rip between the immaterial and material planes due to the speed in which slaanesh was formed in the heart of the eldar empire because it was created by the eldar.

it has become an 'i told you so' lesson not myth

This is canon GW fluff that can't be misunderstood by anyone who reads it, i don't get why you have such an issue understanding it

BluntmanDC wrote:i don't get why you have such an issue understanding it

Because I think it makes more sense if it isn't taken literally? Especially--as Nurglitch explicitly pointed out--GW talks about daemons in an overwhelmingly metaphorical way. Really, it only makes sense if it isn't literal.

Try this out for size:

- The warp is atemporal. <--- "well documented canon"

- Chaos gods are the warp. <--- "well-documented canon"

- Chaos gods are atemporal.

. . . and then . . .

- Something which is atemporal can have no beginning.

- Chaos gods are atemporal.

- Chaos gods can have no beginning.

So in what sense was Slaanesh, which has no beginning, "born"?

Manchu wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:i don't get why you have such an issue understanding it

Because I think it makes more sense if it isn't taken literally? Especially--as Nurglitch explicitly pointed out--GW talks about daemons in an overwhelmingly metaphorical way. Really, it only makes sense if it isn't literal.

Try this out for size:

- The warp is atemporal. <--- "well documented canon"

- Chaos gods are the warp. <--- "well-documented canon"

- Chaos gods are atemporal.

. . . and then . . .

- Something which is atemporal can have no beginning.

- Chaos gods are atemporal.

- Chaos gods can have no beginning.

So in what sense was Slaanesh, which has no beginning, "born"?

In the sense that it was the eldar that created slaanesh and that the other chaos gods didn't exist till the war between the old ones and c'tan.

the warp is atemporal in the warp, but not in relation with the material world

the chaos gods are not the warp they are part of the warp, the warp contains other gods and beings not related to the chaos four.

BluntmanDC wrote:the warp is atemporal in the warp, but not in relation with the material world

The, despite your protests, it would seem that you do understand what I'm having trouble with . . . So I guess it's my turn to inquire what you are having such trouble with?

the chaos gods are not the warp they are part of the warp, the warp contains other gods and beings not related to the chaos four.

It would seem that you think the latter implies the former, which is quite untrue. You'll find that in C:CD, the Ruinous Powers are the personification of the Warp itself--hence why their "domains" can "grow" in relation to their pychic influence/positioning in the Great Game.

Manchu wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:the chaos gods are not the warp they are part of the warp, the warp contains other gods and beings not related to the chaos four.

It would seem that you think the latter implies the former, which is quite untrue. You'll find that in C:CD, the Ruinous Powers are the personification of the Warp itself--hence why their "domains" can "grow" in relation to their pychic influence/positioning in the Great Game.

the fact that you used the word domain proves my point, each chaos god is part of the warp not the warp

So what? A hydra has nine heads but is one beast.

the chaos gods are not related to one another, they each have their own domains, they are each fed by different emotions.

the warp has other gods in it, such as gork and mork, that are no relation to the chaos gods.

Gork is Khorne, Mork is Tzeentch.

BluntmanDC wrote:the chaos gods are not related to one another, they each have their own domains, they are each fed by different emotions.

This is not at issue. The issue is that Chaos Gods are not subject to time. There was no time before which they existed. They cannot have been "born" at all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But to address that point (as a tangent), I understand it to work like this: the effect of rage and violence on the Warp is Khorne, etc.

Nurglitch wrote:Gork is Khorne, Mork is Tzeentch.

I LOVE the idea that tzeentch is an Ork god. that makes so much sense! Cause when i think of Orks i think of plans, and schemes.

Manchu wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote: They cannot have been "born" at all.

all fluff says they were created or Born

From Lost and the Damned:



and



Bit old now but still a great insight and a great resource on Chaos

yer the lost and the damned is the cornerstone for the chaos powers and is pretty clear