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generalgrog wrote:Well "tolkien dogma" didn't stop him from changing things in LOTR either. Remember the dwarf tossing incident? Or the elves at helms deep? Where was Bombadil? I mean the trilogy was still an awesome achievement despite some of the changes that I disliked. (see above)

GG

Tolkien seemed drunk when he wrote the part with Tom Bombadil.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Idunno, if you can do LOTR in three movies you can certainly do The Hobbit in one. That's the first warning sign for me.

That was my thought as well, but I re-read it and narratively there is too much to put into one film. As I've suggested previously in another thread, I'm guessing it will split directly after the spiders in Mirkwood, just as the dwarves get captured by the elves. I'm even fairly confident that the last shot of Part 1 will be Bilbo outside the doors to the elven palace looking flumoxed.

As for Blanchett etc, yes they are clearly doing the Necromancer although I'm curious to see how they'll fit into the story arc. It will probably pad out the first half of Part 2. Legolas is a Mirkwood elf and there's no reason for him not be around in the elven palace scenes and he would therefore be a likely bonus participant in the Battle of the Five Armies.

I'm thinking it will split after Smuag is slain. Slaying the dragon is a natural ending point. They can fill part 2 up with the necromancer and battle of five armies. They need to have some sort of climactic ending, like the way they did it in all 3 lotr movies.

GG

generalgrog wrote:I'm thinking it will split after Smuag is slain. Slaying the dragon is a natural ending point. They can fill part 2 up with the necromancer and battle of five armies. They need to have some sort of climactic ending, like the way they did it in all 3 lotr movies.

GG

That will make Part 1 a long arse film.

The Shire
Trolls
Rivendell
Goblin fight
Riddles in the Dark
Warg fight
Beorn
Mirkwood trek
Spider fight
Rescue Dwarves from the Elven palace
Lake Town
Work out Misty Mountain entrance riddle
Enter Smaug's lair, steal cup
Smaug attacks Lake Town
The End

Flashman wrote:

generalgrog wrote:I'm thinking it will split after Smuag is slain. Slaying the dragon is a natural ending point. They can fill part 2 up with the necromancer and battle of five armies. They need to have some sort of climactic ending, like the way they did it in all 3 lotr movies.

GG

That will make Part 1 a long arse film.

The Shire
Trolls
Rivendell
Goblin fight
Riddles in the Dark
Warg fight
Beorn
Mirkwood trek
Spider fight
Rescue Dwarves from the Elven palace
Lake Town
Work out Misty Mountain entrance riddle
Enter Smaug's lair, steal cup
Smaug attacks Lake Town
The End

Let me take a crack breaking this down...

The Shire.............................................10min
Trolls...................................................10min
Rivendell................................................5min
Goblin fight...........................................15min
Riddles in the Dark..................................10min
Warg fight.............................................3min
Beorn...................................................10min
Mirkwood trek.......................................2min
Spider fight...........................................10min
Rescue Dwarves from the Elven palace......15min
Lake Town............................................10min
Work out Misty Mountain entrance riddle....10min(inlcudes time to get there and climb mountain)
Enter Smaug's lair, steal cup......................15min
Smaug attacks Lake Town........................15min

About 2.5 hours...give or take. Return of the king was over 3 hrs wasn't it?

I did a quick look at FOTR for pacing comparison
FOTR = 3 hrs
Intro...................................................7 min
shire to bilbos leaving............................17 min
bilbos leaving to frodos leaving..................13 min
wizard battle......................................... 5 min
farmer maggott's to bree.........................7 min
bree..................................................... 8 min
weathertop............................................7 min
weather top to rivendell...........................9 min
rivendell.................................................21min
rivendell to watcher in water.....................11min
watcher in water battle..............................1min

That's over half the movie right there.

I don't see a problem fitting in smaugs death in first film.

GG








GG

GG, we may have theological disagreements, but you put real effort into your LOTR posts, and as such i tip my hat to you.

mattyrm wrote:GG, we may have theological disagreements, but you put real effort into your LOTR posts, and as such i tip my hat to you.

netflix makes it easy

GG

God, did they really spend 21 mins in Rivendell in Fellowship? Is that in the theatrical cut or the special edition?

Anyway, still fairly confident I'm right about the midway point, but guess we shall have to wait and see.

it all depends on where you add in the secondary content.

My guess is that other than the intro you start to bring in the content from Rivendell.

PART ONE
Intro
Gandalf meets Bilbo
unexpected party
morning after
journey from shire
scouting near trolls
troll capture
troll argument and resolution
looting troll cave
travel to rivendell
chat with Elrond
- Galadriel scrys movement from Dol Guldur
- Sauron prepares to depart Dol Guldur
- Sauron calls ring, Gollum staring at ring, puts on ring hunts goblin, ring leaves Gollum
peaceful departure from Rivendell
Climbing Misty Mountain pass
Goblin cave fight, spells, dramatic exit, goblin capture
gopblin king, sword!, fight in goblin town, biter/beater, escape, Bilbo falls
Bilbo finds ring
Riddles
Bilbo escapes
bilbo finds dwarves
Flee to forest
Wargs, Spells, Fire, Eagles
- Radagast sends critter to summon Gandalf
Trip to Beorn
Beorn, rapid intro, just travel there, stay with him
shape change at night/Beorn interrogates goblin wargrider
- Radagasts message arrives
Gandalf torn as to his direction
Escort dwarves to Mirkwood
Gandalf leaves and heads south
Mirkwood
- White Council (extended sequence, Saruman politicing)
more Mirkwood (you dont want much treking but interspacing with White Council gives impresion of time.
Enchanted river, Bombur falls in
Elf lights (Legolas seen)
gatecrash, chaos
spiders (main end action sequence of film)
long fight sequence
escape and capture by elves
END PART ONE
after credit sequence: my precious!!!


PART TWO
Biblo sneaks about
dwarf rescue
barrels
Bilbo sneaks into elf hunting party camp with cold - comic relief, Legolas seen
arrive at lake town, grand entrance time
political chaos, elves, master, bard, dwarves, crowd with Bilbo as neutral viewpoint
departure highlight Bibos misery in contrast to everyone, and masters falseness
Lonely Mountian
search and climb
long corridor; glow of Smaug
Smaug
cup
rumble
panic
dragonflight
sneak back
conversation
thrush
Bard sees approach of Smaug
fight, Bard, thrush arrives
Death of Smaug - this is an early high point but pace needs to be kept up.
news spreads, panoramic montage
- News reaches white council
? - news reaches Sauron ?
- False retreat of Sauron then move to Barad-dur
Everyone moving
dwaerves and hobbit sitting peacefully
thrush arrives
panic
wall building
army of elves and men arrive
delegation - Legolas seen
Bilbo sneaks out
meet Gandalf et al
next morning - calm before storm
delegation Thorin upset Bilbo released
Dain arrives there and then
Gandalf prevents immediate war, warns of approaching tide of goblins
battle, eagles, battle turning against free peoples, Bilbo blacksout (start main action sequence of film series)
Thorin appears fully tooled up - hardware impressive
smackdown, tide turns
Bolg revealed - horribly impressive
smackdown, tide turns again
Beorn arrives - deus ex machina impressive
final smackdown
Aftermath fade
Bilbo farewell to Thorin
Final scene Bilbo leaves heading west with Beorn, Gandalf and laden pony
THE END (no return to Shire, no auction, no Balin)
after credit sequence: Bilbo at home staring at ring

@ Orlanth - Pretty much my thinking

Yeah I just don't see them NOT putting the dragon in the first film. The dragon is the selling point, and del toro indicated that the 1st movie would end with the dragon. But it's all speculation at this point.

GG

edit...and also trying to put, the dragon, the battle of five armies AND the necromancer battle in the 2nd film strikes me as too much.

generalgrog wrote:Well "tolkien dogma" didn't stop him from changing things in LOTR either. Remember the dwarf tossing incident? Or the elves at helms deep? Where was Bombadil? I mean the trilogy was still an awesome achievement despite some of the changes that I disliked. (see above)

GG

Tokin' stated himself stated that he didn't really know where he was going with it in the early chapters (too much of that Shire pipe weed methinks), which is where the stuff like Bombadil, Barrow Wights etc that have no real part of the cohesive overall storyline come from and was cut. The movies were long enough as it is. Elves at helms deep were filmmakers version of poetic license I think, as was Liv Tyler being Frodo's ride across the river (a vague attempt at having a stronger female character in the first movie, since Eowyn wasn't there yet, so they could get little girl fans theoretically), when in the book, if I recall, she just kind was mentioned briefly and stood there and looked pretty at Elrond's crib while the men did manly stuff like arguing and swearing oaths and such.

As far as the cast goes, That's pretty gak of Ian McClellan to not follow up with another gandalf, knowing that it is a lead role. But, he probably knows that, just like the trilogy, every fantasy geek in the world will have to see it even if they didn't like the other movies, just on principle... so he knows that peter jackson is sitting on a gold mine and probably wants his cut. Galadriel not as necessary as Gandalf and Elrond, and 'the necromancer' is a backstory in the hobbit, not actually any specific character so that shouldn't be difficult to cast. Really the only continuing cast I would think are needed would be Gandalf, Gollum, Elrond, and Bilbo.

ArtfcllyFlvrd wrote:

Connor McKane wrote:But also I am remembering how well Mr. Jackson did to bring the Trilogy to life.

I don't know what trilogy you were watching. Fellowship = Not that good. Two Towers = Good so long as you can ignore skateboarding Legolas and hoacky dialouge. Return of the King = Terrible on all counts.

That's 1 out of three. And with every other not so great movie he has made it's like 1 out of 8. I don't have high hopes for The Hobbit. The best thing that could happen to this movie is it dies in production.

And in other news, internet spod claims to have a better knowledge of film making than highly successful director. (nothing overly personal fella, just find it highly amusing how many arm chair directors with zero experience criticise what is to all intents and purposes a tricky proposiition)

The Return Of The King is worth watching just for the attack of the Riders of Rohan at the battle of Pelennor.

I guess that's the only part I enjoyed　and watched .

M.　

my concerns are the same as they were with lotrs - hoping they don't cut nice little sections in favour of action. There's a huge amount of action in the hobbit, especially when the necromancers added in. And I'd be over the oon if they do extended editions as well (as in actually extended rather than a 'special edition/hold stuff back) to make more profit on sales.

I hope Ian Signs for Gandaf, although he is getting on a bit now which could be a concern. It's what, getting on for 7-10 years since lotrs and he was showing his age back then a bit when you see shots off camera with no make up.

Either way, I can't wait! Especially if Weta work their magic on a dragon. I'd put money on it being the best dragon yet put to film!

He's only 71. We should be more worried about Christopher Lee. He'll be nearly 90 by the time the films start to come out.

I think there is an opportunity for an early action sequence while Thorin is telling Bilbo of the attack of Smaug on the city of Dale, and its destruction. Also a good way to introduce Smaug, done as a flashback.

covenant84 wrote:I hope Ian Signs for Gandaf, although he is getting on a bit now which could be a concern. It's what, getting on for 7-10 years since lotrs and he was showing his age back then a bit when you see shots off camera with no make up.

I saw him this year when he toured with a production of Waiting for Godot. He was full of energy, and plenty spry enough to reprise his role as Gandalf.