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Melissia wrote:

The Kilted Samurai wrote:You know, I'm not a huge fan of southern politics or fundamentalists Christians either but there was no need to bash Alabama as a whole for that.

Right, I bash Alabama as a whole for entirely different reasons.

Don't worry, I make fun of my home state too, I just so happen to dislike Alabama more.

Have you been too Alabama though or is it just Southern stereotypes your basing this off of?

The Kilted Samurai wrote:

Melissia wrote:

The Kilted Samurai wrote:You know, I'm not a huge fan of southern politics or fundamentalists Christians either but there was no need to bash Alabama as a whole for that.

Right, I bash Alabama as a whole for entirely different reasons.

Don't worry, I make fun of my home state too, I just so happen to dislike Alabama more.

Have you been too Alabama though or is it just Southern stereotypes your basing this off of?

I am a southerner...

That said, no, I have my reasons for disliking Alabama. I named some of them earlier in this thread.

Eldanar wrote:@ Melissia

With statements like that, all you do is re-confirm your own ignorance...

And with statements like this, you become disliked by the Melissia worshippers.

But seriously? she said nothing wrong :\ I don't like belgium or germany, why? cause their anoying drivers. Is that a good reason to hate the entire country? Probably not. Does that bother me? Nope.

Soladrin wrote:And with statements like this, you become disliked by the Melissia worshippers.

Such a thing exists? You really should tell them to stop, they might cause Rapture early.

This joke is probably a bit obscure. For reference, at one point someone called me the antichrist.

Da Boss wrote:...
Is it wrong that I think Christians with true faith really SHOULD be pushing their religion at others, as in, if they are right, it's the right thing for them to do?
So what sennacherib said wouldn't offend me if I was a christian, as...well, it's an expansive faith right? History is full of glorious conversions to christianity from heathen old faiths (from the christian perspective).
Not getting the outrage guys!

He's a public figure, making these comments in part by means of his "authority". I.e. he's standing there, Seal of Alabama, representing his position, espousing personal opinion. I don't feel as though that's right.

Also, by the same token, if my religion believed that punching people in the face was the only way to stay out of Hell, as a true believer of the Holy Sanction of Punching Face, isn't it the right thing for me to do?

Interesting question, sort of OT, is who are we allowed to hate?

Can I hate Christians?
Can I hate gays?
Can I hate white privilege?
Can I hate black culture?

What makes one thing alright to hate and not the other? replace the word hate with denigrate and see which are allowed.

Can you? Yes. But that doesn't mean we have to like it.

Melissia wrote:

The Kilted Samurai wrote:

Melissia wrote:

The Kilted Samurai wrote:You know, I'm not a huge fan of southern politics or fundamentalists Christians either but there was no need to bash Alabama as a whole for that.

Right, I bash Alabama as a whole for entirely different reasons.

Don't worry, I make fun of my home state too, I just so happen to dislike Alabama more.

Have you been too Alabama though or is it just Southern stereotypes your basing this off of?

I am a southerner...

That said, no, I have my reasons for disliking Alabama. I named some of them earlier in this thread.

Fair enough, my apologies. I assumed you were just being ignorant.

Gen. Lee Losing wrote:Interesting question, sort of OT, is who are we allowed to hate?

Can I hate Christians?
Can I hate gays?
Can I hate white privilege?
Can I hate black culture?

What makes one think alright to hate and not the other? replace the word hate with denigrate and see which are allowed.

In the age of liberal guilt, you can only hate the haters.

Spent my high school days in Alabama. I've been in both ongoing wars and nothing is scarier that having your date tell you "I didn't tell my dad about your race because he would kill me." then having her dad pull up next to you... in his patrol car. The weather is great though, and the roads unpaved. Love all the forests. Hate avoiding parts of the state where I could end up "hanging" with the homies.

I should think this will go down pretty well in Alabama.

The USA is a very religious country, the south even more so, and there aren't enough Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and so on to worry about, so they can go feth themselves.

It has the slight disadvantage that Christians are self-defining, so they may define themselves as different to the Governor, meaning he is a mendacious servant of Hell, but on the whole I think it will play fairly well as long as he sticks to reasonably orthodox sects like Baptists.

sexiest_hero wrote:Spent my high school days in Alabama. I've been in both ongoing wars and nothing is scarier that having your date tell you "I didn't tell my dad about your race because he would kill me." then having her dad pull up next to you... in his patrol car. The weather is great though, and the roads unpaved. Love all the forests. Hate avoiding parts of the state where I could end up "hanging" with the homies.

I live in Cali.
I go in some neighborhoods and I will never be seen again. Because I am white. It happens everywhere.

daedalus wrote:

Gen. Lee Losing wrote:Interesting question, sort of OT, is who are we allowed to hate?

Can I hate Christians?
Can I hate gays?
Can I hate white privilege?
Can I hate black culture?

What makes one think alright to hate and not the other? replace the word hate with denigrate and see which are allowed.

In the age of liberal guilt, you can only hate the haters.

Easy way to break the system:

I hate everyone, I don't discriminate

Melissia wrote:

The Kilted Samurai wrote:

Melissia wrote:

The Kilted Samurai wrote:You know, I'm not a huge fan of southern politics or fundamentalists Christians either but there was no need to bash Alabama as a whole for that.

Right, I bash Alabama as a whole for entirely different reasons.

Don't worry, I make fun of my home state too, I just so happen to dislike Alabama more.

Have you been too Alabama though or is it just Southern stereotypes your basing this off of?

I am a southerner...

That said, no, I have my reasons for disliking Alabama. I named some of them earlier in this thread.

Admit it, you're just scared becausew they have a battleship. Don't be a battleship hata.

Texas on the other hand, has a destroyer, an aircraft carrier, and a submarine. We also have javalinas. Don't feth with Texas when it comes to historical ship wars or we'll broadside you with screaming angry wild pigs. The only state we are afraid of is the one that has Old Ironsides in it. You don't mess with that kind of 'tude.

Exactly, and since I am Texan (weirdly, people have claimed Texas isn't "south" enough...), I have no reason to be envious of Alabama

live in Cali.
I go in some neighborhoods and I will never be seen again. Because I am white. It happens everywhere.

I didn't say it didn't. I just said there were places there I wouldn't go. Since we were talking about Alabama. Lots of places in the world are not safe for White people, South america, the middle east, good chunks of Africa, The worst of the inner city areas. We were talking about the good ole Red Tide state, and how behind they are on the times.

Soladrin wrote:

Easy way to break the system:

I hate everyone, I don't discriminate

I kinda like it.

"Life's too short to be selective about those you hate."

Gen. Lee Losing wrote:

sexiest_hero wrote:Spent my high school days in Alabama. I've been in both ongoing wars and nothing is scarier that having your date tell you "I didn't tell my dad about your race because he would kill me." then having her dad pull up next to you... in his patrol car. The weather is great though, and the roads unpaved. Love all the forests. Hate avoiding parts of the state where I could end up "hanging" with the homies.

I live in Cali.
I go in some neighborhoods and I will never be seen again. Because I am white. It happens everywhere.

Same deal in San Antonio. Whites do not enter certain areas unless they have a hispanic or black buddy with them.

Alabama could be worse.... It could be delaware

The Kilted Samurai wrote:

Not really. Is it offensive? Yes. Is it politically incorrect? Yes. But is it a violation of the 1st amendment? Not yet at least. This would fall under the free speech category and not actually under freedom of religion. Until he decides to set up mandatory praying in school or something of that sort, THEN he would be violating that right.

I dont really find it offensive personally mate, Its not anyway near as offensive as purposely lying to kids in school or frightning them with awful tales of torture and death and a young age, or trying to sneak horse gak into textbooks by covert backhanded means, I mean, at least he is just giving his own opinion. BUT, it has to be a violation surely?

Im British, so i am not 100% on this, but isnt the first adt in a nutshell "Freedom of Religion"?

Therefore, If a Governor, not just a random Joe, actually turns around and says that Christianity IS the Religion that is important, and If you dont follow said Religion you are NOT as equal as the people that do. Surely then he is in violation? By definition any other choice of faith can never be equal to his own choice.

Freedom from Religion, Freedom of Religion, Freedom to pick anything you want, Freedom of speech.

A random guy can say it, you and I can say it, and we can all chat about it, but somebody that high up in the actual state governance surely cannot say this in the public forum and not be violating that first amendment?

I mean, I dont care that much either way, Im not from Alabama, I just think you know.. it kinda looks that way to me, and im wondering If this is going to get him into any trouble?

Probably not.

Evangelical Christians only care about the first amendment as long as it doesn't prohibit them from preaching.

Gen. Lee Losing wrote:
What makes one thing alright to hate and not the other? replace the word hate with denigrate and see which are allowed.

Denigration and hate are not the same thing. You seem to be making a bold attempt at equivocation.

Well, that, or you don't know the meaning of the words you're using.

You might as well say "Change 'hate' to 'love' and witness the changes!"

Matty, the First Amendment is freedom of speech/expression, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion.

A governmental official doesn't lose his right to free speech, which includes the right to say offensive things. He is supposed to be careful not to use his official position to promote one religion over another, but this is a line that can be tricky to judge and which some jackholes don't care too much about.

I'm from California, not Alabama, having been through Alabama and the south while travelling I have to say that it is beautiful country and from what I saw they were very hospitable. But I am white, and if they had known that I am an atheist, things might not have been so friendly. But who can say, there might be a really interesting sociological experiment waiting to be undertaken on this subject.
The separation of church and state is of extreme importance to me both as a citizen and as a human being. Why ... because my views and those of the religious are widely disparate from one another. I believe that homosexuals are no different than anyone else with the one exception being their choice of partners. I firmly believe in evolution and recognize that we are no different than many other animals except that we have the capacity to think symbolically which has allowed us to elevate our culture to its current level. I believe in a woman’s right to choose whether or not she is ready to have a child. I believe in the use of contraception to help reduce overpopulation, which I believe is a reality. I absolutely believe that global climate change is a reality and that WE, not god are the ones that are driving ourselves toward an early demise. These are divisions between my philosophy and that of many, not all; members of the christian faith. These are all elements of our society that remain within the governments realm to act upon and I would hope that anyone in the government would act on these concerns based on a sound logical perspective.
Since this man who was elected is supposed to be representing and working for all the citizens of his state, I would say that his statement raises legitimate concern as to his ability to fairly govern. I want to know that any decisions he makes are based on sound logical though, not some feeling/ unfounded belief that he has, supported by a 2000 year old text written in a time period that lacked all but the most basic understanding of the functioning of the world. A text that I might add cannot be taken literally anymore and instead must be interpreted.
And as for all the hater comments... when I am attending classes here at the university, the Free Speech area often has and abundance of religious individuals holding crosses and shouting about how god hates f@gs, how we are all sinners and about how we MUST accept jesus christ or else we will all go to hell and suffer for all eternity. Seems ironic that an all loving god would condemn his children to suffer for all of eternity. And if my opposition to being controlled by the aforementioned individuals makes me a hater, then so be it.

sennacherib wrote: I'm from California, not Alabama, having been through Alabama and the south while travelling I have to say that it is beautiful country and from what I saw they were very hospitable. But I am white, and if they had known that I am an atheist, things might not have been so friendly. But who can say, there might be a really interesting sociological experiment waiting to be undertaken on this subject.
The separation of church and state is of extreme importance to me both as a citizen and as a human being. Why ... because my views and those of the religious are widely disparate from one another. I believe that homosexuals are no different than anyone else with the one exception being their choice of partners. I firmly believe in evolution and recognize that we are no different than many other animals except that we have the capacity to think symbolically which has allowed us to elevate our culture to its current level. I believe in a woman’s right to choose whether or not she is ready to have a child. I believe in the use of contraception to help reduce overpopulation, which I believe is a reality. I absolutely believe that global climate change is a reality and that WE, not god are the ones that are driving ourselves toward an early demise. These are divisions between my philosophy and that of many, not all; members of the christian faith. These are all elements of our society that remain within the governments realm to act upon and I would hope that anyone in the government would act on these concerns based on a sound logical perspective.
Since this man who was elected is supposed to be representing and working for all the citizens of his state, I would say that his statement raises legitimate concern as to his ability to fairly govern. I want to know that any decisions he makes are based on sound logical though, not some feeling/ unfounded belief that he has, supported by a 2000 year old text written in a time period that lacked all but the most basic understanding of the functioning of the world. A text that I might add cannot be taken literally anymore and instead must be interpreted.
And as for all the hater comments... when I am attending classes here at the university, the Free Speech area often has and abundance of religious individuals holding crosses and shouting about how god hates f@gs, how we are all sinners and about how we MUST accept jesus christ or else we will all go to hell and suffer for all eternity. Seems ironic that an all loving god would condemn his children to suffer for all of eternity. And if my opposition to being controlled by the aforementioned individuals makes me a hater, then so be it.

See. California doesn't have a battleship. They just have the Queen Mary. A battleship would do bad things to the Queen Mary...

USS California (BB-44) a Tennessee class battleship. Sunk during Pearl Harbor, then recommissioned to serve with distinction until being decomissioned in 1947.

yea but she's scrap right and not IN California.

Unlike Texas which has a battleship and an aircraft carrier, and a submarine. In case Mexico, or maybe the Vatican, decides to get uppity.

dogma wrote:

Denigration and hate are not the same thing. You seem to be making a bold attempt at equivocation.

Well, that, or you don't know the meaning of the words you're using.

You might as well say "Change 'hate' to 'love' and witness the changes!"

You mean that two separate words could have different meaning?!?! I had no idea! (sarcasm)
I have never heard of denigration used in a happy fuzzy "I love you" sort of way.
But I thank you for pointing out that the two different words are in fact different.

Now. Let me clarify. What is socially accepted?
Is it okay to say on national TV that Christians are ALL wackos like this governor?
Is it okay to say on national TV that all homosexuals are disgusting deviants?

Which comment would cause more 'fuss'? (Which would be more offense on these boards?)

The Kilted Samurai wrote:You know, I'm not a huge fan of southern politics or fundamentalists Christians either but there was no need to bash Alabama as a whole for that.

That is far to sensible a solution.

The Governor was speaking for himself there and not necessarily representing everyone's views in that state.

Except he was speaking as the Governor from the Governors podium at a government gathering. If he had said it at a fundraiser or a social event where he was speaking for himself that would be fine and reasonable. What happened here was tantamount to the state endorsement of a specific religion.

I live in Southern California and go to school in North Cal and I can tell you right now, we are faaaaaaaar from perfect.

I don't think you'll have any trouble convincing anyone that California has issues. After all, it isn't Texas, amiright Fraz?

That said as an agnostic, whether the governor knew it was offensive or not, he should go F himself.

An agnostic? In California? This changes my whole world view.

No one with the kind of conviction that the Alabama gov. expressed should be allowed in public office. He needs to have a special office where he can lord over people with his same conviction.