A sad day for the gaming community

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**BrassScorpion**

MODS, please close this thread before we're treated to more opinions, arguments and rants either way on what constitutes fitting punishment. Those are hardly gaming news or rumors and clearly some people have issues to work out.

**R3con**

Looks like its not the first time according to the Detroit News.

Guess I'm glad I've always used cash for my Hobbies..

No paper trail for the Wifey to follow =)

**Grey Templar**

Ok, so the guy stole the money, got in trouble, is paying it back, everything is good, justice is served. move on.

**BloodQuest**

BrassScorpion wrote:MODS, please close this thread before we're treated to more opinions...

Hang on a second, you've posted SIX times in this thread, are the rest of us not supposed to participate?

Unsubscribe the thread if you don't want to continue to follow it.

Kilkrazy wrote:The man had already realised his error, felt remorse, and was well on the way to making restitution.

Seems just as likely to me that Peter Jackson or someone at the CC company worked out what was going on and the guy was trying to pay back the money before the Feds had their case ready.

I do feel bad for someone that got desperate enough to do this, but you really have to think that the guy got greedy.

And, who knows? Maybe Peter Jackson lost all that weight because he can't afford to buy food anymore. Or not.

**Empchild**

@ketera, how is this not newes. This is no real differnce from another company accussed of stealing vs a well respected and known company dtealing.

@brass, people state theikr opinons all of the time on here And though I see your point that is no reason to just lock this thread. This is a big deaL for many people who should know about this as his /company was one of the more rezspected ones out there.

**ancientsociety**

Regardless of whether or not Mr. Berry agreed to pay back Peter Jackson the point is this

HE STOLE A CUSTOMER'S CC INFO & THEN COMMITED FRAUD WITH THAT INFO.

Luckily, I've never ordered from Mich. Toy Soldier and I thank my lucky stars I didn't. Who knows how many customers he defrauded in this scheme.

If you ordered from them with a CC, go back and check your statements and make sure there are no fraudelant charges!

Scary stuff...

**General Hobbs**

There is almost no security with many companies when you order with a CC. I used to work for a company that took orders...while going through the database looking for a customer's account one day, I actually found an ex-girlfriend's name and her CC info. I could have gotten away with alot! But seriously....all you had to do was open up the ordering program, and their info was right there.

**Empchild**

Nice to see they moved this too off topic, but it's ok to talk about a legal action with another company.

**Mannahnin**

Albino Squirrel wrote:When you buy something from a business using your credit card, you naturally assume they aren't going to take your credit card information and use it to buy things for themselves. That's illegal and should be punished.

Absolutely agreed.

Albino Squirrel wrote:Of course he should go to jail. He stole a lot of money. He should also never own a store again. He betrayed his customers by stealing from one of them.

Absolutely disagree. He's making restitution. He should get probation, and only go to jail if there's a second offense. Putting him in jail hurts society more, by probably causing his business to close and making someone else have to take care of his sick father.

**Empchild**

Hrmmm interesting thought mannheim, by him going to jail you are thinking it would only increase the punishment overall and in sense drive him to possibly do it again. The question is though how does one handle this with a firm hand but not soo weakly as to allow for others to follow. To strong of a punishment would mean further damages, but to weak would tell the rest of us that it is ok to do grand larsony (total misspell I know) as we will only get a slap on the wrist. Interesting as I didn't look at it in this way.

**Bookwrack**

A prison sentence would serve no purpose at this point, and would in fact be a very stupid course of action as it would drastically interfere with paying off the rest of the money. Since all involved parties are satisfied with the current terms of restitution, anything beyond probation would be excessive.

**ArtfcllyFlvrd**

I have to come down on the side that the guy should go to jail. Not forever but enough to make it hurt. The guy stole $200k. The fact that he tried to pay it back is irrelevant, he SHOULD pay it back, and he still should be punished for the very large theft. And the article wasn't really specific but I would imagine he only started paying it back after he was caught.

Maybe he was desperate, but if everyone who was desperate started stealing we would fall into anarchy. You have to punish behavior like this to deter others who might think "If I don't get away with it I'll just pay it off over a long time and get probation"

**Mannahnin**

Empchild wrote:Hrmmm interesting thought mannheim, by him going to jail you are thinking it would only increase the punishment overall and in sense drive him to possibly do it again. The question is though how does one handle this with a firm hand but not soo weakly as to allow for others to follow. To strong of a punishment would mean further damages, but to weak would tell the rest of us that it is ok to do grand larsony (total misspell I know) as we will only get a slap on the wrist. Interesting as I didn't look at it in this way.

Yeah, I didn't mention, but a punitive fine as well as probation would make sense. He could pay the fine in installments as soon as he's done paying Jackson back, and in the exact same manner.

I had to strongly object to the idea of his store being closed and him being prevented from running one again; what the heck good would that do? Just ruin a business, make more people unemployed, and prevent the guy from gainfully contributing to society.

Probation should be more than enough to make sure he doesn't pull this again. It's not like this is a difficult crime to catch.

**Frazzled**

Kilkrazy wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:He made a stupid decision, but has been actively seeking to provide reparations since he did it--and without the court stepping in prior to that.

*shrug* I see no real problems there.

I agree.

The man had already realised his error, felt remorse, and was well on the way to making restitution.

I understand that justice must be seen to be done, so it cannot be ignored by the Law.

In the circumstances though, a custodial sentence surely would be excessive, and also would prevent repayment of the rest of the debt.

I disagree. He committed theft of value more than the homes of many people. He should be jailed for 1 year for every thousand dollars he took, and thats only if he acts nice. If not he should go to the Bad Place...(FKA Detroit).

**rubiksnoob**

Frazzled wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:He made a stupid decision, but has been actively seeking to provide reparations since he did it--and without the court stepping in prior to that.

*shrug* I see no real problems there.

I agree.

The man had already realised his error, felt remorse, and was well on the way to making restitution.

I understand that justice must be seen to be done, so it cannot be ignored by the Law.

In the circumstances though, a custodial sentence surely would be excessive, and also would prevent repayment of the rest of the debt.

I disagree. He committed theft of value more than the homes of many people. He should be jailed for 1 year for every thousand dollars he took, and thats only if he acts nice. If not he should go to the Bad Place...(FKA Detroit).

He should be put in prison for 200 years for stealing $200,000, half of which he's already paid back?

**Frazzled**

Empchild wrote:For those saying that "well he messed up but that's ok because he's paying it back" you are just wrong on so many level. 200k is Grand Larson and I am a firm believer if you break the law no matter what you deserve to be punished to the extent. That is almost as good as saying the former founder of the crips is a good person because even though he killed people he felt remorse and wrote childrens books. A man accepts the punishment he is dealt for his crimes, but to write it off sets a very bad presidence. Honestly that reviles me that you even think it's ok and says a lot because this man still broke the law. Not all business owners break the law, I report all of my taxes I collect to the state monthly like they like. I tell my tax attorney every dime I make for the simple fact that sooner or later if you break the law you will get caught and then the punishment is far worse. The easiest way to not get in trouble is to simply not do anything wrong. Too many people say that's impossible but it's not. Heck I was one of a few soldiers in my platoon during my career who didn't get brought up on judicial punishment for the simple fact that the few times I did mess up I owned up to it right away, and though I may have had a strong coat of sweat on me after a few hours on punishment I never had my rank, or money taken away or most importantly my honor and dignitiy.

Indeed. A petty criminal can get sent to jail for lfe for robbing three people, but this loser gets sympathy? No I say! Give him...THE SHRUBBERY!

**Emperors Faithful**

rubiksnoob wrote:He should be put in prison for 200 years for stealing $200,000, half of which he's already paid back?

Look, don't encourage it.

**Frazzled**

rubiksnoob wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:He made a stupid decision, but has been actively seeking to provide reparations since he did it--and without the court stepping in prior to that.

*shrug* I see no real problems there.

I agree.

The man had already realised his error, felt remorse, and was well on the way to making restitution.

I understand that justice must be seen to be done, so it cannot be ignored by the Law.

In the circumstances though, a custodial sentence surely would be excessive, and also would prevent repayment of the rest of the debt.

I disagree. He committed theft of value more than the homes of many people. He should be jailed for 1 year for every thousand dollars he took, and thats only if he acts nice. If not he should go to the Bad Place...(FKA Detroit).

He should be put in prison for 200 years for stealing $200,000, half of which he's already paid back?

Exactly. he really should be sentenced to Transportation... but we have posters from that place and it turns out that place is now pretty cool.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Emperors Faithful wrote:
rubiksnoob wrote:He should be put in prison for 200 years for stealing $200,000, half of which he's already paid back?

Look, don't encourage it.

You're just jealous because all the voices talk to me and not you.

**Kilkrazy**

Is it worse to steal from a rich man or a poor man?

**akira5665**

A poor man KK, he feels it more...

Still makes it inexcusable though.

People who run reputable Online Stores like Battlroad games arer rightly pissed.

"Tarring them all with the same brush" is a societical perception thing.

No Jail time, but SERIOUS fines and/or restrictions.

**legoburner**

Crazy, I've been there a few times and met the guy. The FoW Waffen-SS troops I'm painting now I bought from there. Luckily with cash :S

**Frazzled**

Kilkrazy wrote:Is it worse to steal from a rich man or a poor man?

Who cares? You stole. You're vermin and have abrogated your right to exist. To the fleshpits with you!

If you can't do the crime don't do the time.

**Kanluwen**

Frazzled wrote:
Empchild wrote:For those saying that "well he messed up but that's ok because he's paying it back" you are just wrong on so many level. 200k is Grand Larson and I am a firm believer if you break the law no matter what you deserve to be punished to the extent. That is almost as good as saying the former founder of the crips is a good person because even though he killed people he felt remorse and wrote childrens books. A man accepts the punishment he is dealt for his crimes, but to write it off sets a very bad presidence. Honestly that reviles me that you even think it's ok and says a lot because this man still broke the law. Not all business owners break the law, I report all of my taxes I collect to the state monthly like they like. I tell my tax attorney every dime I make for the simple fact that sooner or later if you break the law you will get caught and then the punishment is far worse. The easiest way to not get in trouble is to simply not do anything wrong. Too many people say that's impossible but it's not. Heck I was one of a few soldiers in my platoon during my career who didn't get brought up on judicial punishment for the simple fact that the few times I did mess up I owned up to it right away, and though I may have had a strong coat of sweat on me after a few hours on punishment I never had my rank, or money taken away or most importantly my honor and dignitiy.

Indeed. A petty criminal can get sent to jail for life for robbing three people, but this loser gets sympathy? No I say! Give him...THE SHRUBBERY!

Bull. Very rarely do "petty criminals get sent to jail for life" just because they robbed three people. There's more to the circumstances than that, usually a gun involved and a prior record or jailtime for more serious offenses.

But let's not let that get in the way of Knee-Jerk Reaction Time!

**R3con**

Lol chapterhouse threads get to go on forever, and this gets booted to off topic?

I'm glad someone posted this in news, for this is IMPORTANT news to those of us in Michigan.

**sebster**

There's some very strange ideas about law and order floating around in this thread.

He committed a serious crime, because $200,000 is a lot of money. But it appears to be an isolated incident, and he is making considerable efforts to repay the money. This means a significantly reduced sentence, possibly even house arrest, is probably the best way to go, but really knowing the best circumstance would require actually being in the court room.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:I disagree. He committed theft of value more than the homes of many people.

You can get a house for less than $200K? Outside of Detroit?

**Melissia**

Frazzled wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:Is it worse to steal from a rich man or a poor man?
Who cares? You stole. You're vermin and have abrogated your right to exist. To the fleshpits with you!

I know it doesn't apply to this guy (who will get the punishment as the law deems fit), but what about people who steal because there's no other way for them to survive?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

sebster wrote:You can get a house for less than $200K? Outside of Detroit?

Houses in Texas are very cheap, mostly because land in Texas is cheap as well.

**Emperors Faithful**

Melissia wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:Is it worse to steal from a rich man or a poor man?
Who cares? You stole. You're vermin and have abrogated your right to exist. To the fleshpits with you!
I know it doesn't apply to this guy (who will get the punishment as the law deems fit), but what about people who steal because there's no other way for them to survive?

Interestingly Islamic Law allows this. So I'd imagine US law would take it into account as well.

**sebster**

Emperors Faithful wrote:Interestingly Islamic Law allows this. So I'd imagine US law would take it into account as well.

Most legal systems do, mostly through common law and the discretion of judges, so mandatory sentencing can and often does screw with it.

That said, 'stealing to survive' does not include 'stealing $200,000 to keep my business afloat'. They're really not the same thing.

**Grey Templar**

I think, taking into account that the guy was really desperate was the motive, that making the guy pay it back is punishment enough.

I think making him pay interest on the stolen money is fair too.

Jail time, no. work your arse off for the next 20 years to pay it back, Hell yeah.

**Emperors Faithful**

sebster wrote:
Emperors Faithful wrote:Interestingly Islamic Law allows this. So I'd imagine US law would take it into account as well.

Most legal systems do, mostly through common law and the discretion of judges, so mandatory sentencing can and often does screw with it.

That said, 'stealing to survive' does not include 'stealing $200,000 to keep my business afloat'. They're really not the same thing.

Yes, Mellissia said as much. I was addressing the second half of the post.