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I honestly don't understand why everyone is so worried about Multi Melta's in their bum.

Deploying Obliterators far enough behind their field where they are able to be in cover, definately looking at the enemies back, and shooting Lascannons into it, is a far safer choice, considering the Point cost of Obliterators. AND They are in cover, allowing them to survive the retaliation!

I mean honestly, just get in their back armor, and then shoot either a Lascannon or Autocannon (depending on how dangerous you feel), at 10 back armor, it's going to pop easily.

Exceptions being Monoliths and Landraiders, and similar.

S8 with 2D6 penetration at 9 or 12 inches (forgot the actual range, someone correct me) is pretty scary, especially on rear armor as that means an instant-pen and auto-glance for most vehicles. The Oblit method is much easier (relatively) to get into that position, at least for CSM. Normal Marines can deplyo via Drop Pod, especially since you can drop a dual autocannon dread, which can kill almost any non-raider vehicle in the back armour easily as well as kill off heavy infantry.

csm's have alot of heavy weapons options but not many of them are practical, 4 lashavocs is incredibly expensive for what they do for instance

Consider also that 3 oblits is about as much as 5 lascannon havocs.
The difference being that one will be able to take powerweapon hits, and one can't.

There is a certain player on this board who has kicked my head in at every event where I meet him and he uses both.

Two Obliterator squads and a squad of Havocs with an icon for Lesser Daemons to come in on and take that objective that the Havocs are sitting next to.

I know, I know "Lesser daemons HURRRR." Just saying something that I've seen work and is used by 'Ard Boyz finalists and winners.

Night Lords wrote:

Jubear wrote:I cant believe people are trying to argue the case for havocs...Oblits all the way havocs are fail.

I cant believe people ignore facts and go with whatever everyone else says. Hmm more shots, more survivability and at a cheaper price only to lose versatility? Havocs > Oblits.

The reason that everyone argues the case for oblits is......that oblits ARE the better choice. I know everyone likes to think of themselves as unique and thats fine they can go loose with there unique armies.

As for me this hobby is to damn expensive to waste time buying crappy choices from any dex

MR's too kind.

For me, the combo of both works very well, and has worked very well at local tournaments, GTs, and in Ard Boyz.

A squad of Havocs in cover has greater resistance to long-range heavy firepower than Oblits do, not having to worry about instant death. A squad of 5 ML havocs with IoCG is 15pts more expensive than a pair of Oblits and puts out twice as many shots. It also can act as a summoning point for cheap LD squads to hold objectives on your side of the table while your expensive assaulty Troops go forward.

I've also experimented with Vindicators and Predators but overall not been overwhelmed with their results. They're much easier to kill or suppress, and the Vindi doesn't bring to the party what IME CSM really need from their HS- 48" guns to kill or suppress enemy transports and vehicles starting on Turn 1.

Mannahnin wrote:A squad of Havocs in cover has greater resistance to long-range heavy firepower than Oblits do, not having to worry about instant death. A squad of 5 ML havocs with IoCG is 15pts more expensive than a pair of Oblits and puts out twice as many shots. It also can act as a summoning point for cheap LD squads to hold objectives on your side of the table while your expensive assaulty Troops go forward.

You mean, 5 havocs with 4 Missle Launchers right? Because unless it got FAQed when I wasn't looking, the Havoc Entry states:

Up to four Havocs can replace their bolter with on of the following:

Weapons/Points cost list

Automatically Appended Next Post:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:S8 with 2D6 penetration at 9 or 12 inches (forgot the actual range, someone correct me) is pretty scary, especially on rear armor as that means an instant-pen and auto-glance for most vehicles. The Oblit method is much easier (relatively) to get into that position, at least for CSM. Normal Marines can deplyo via Drop Pod, especially since you can drop a dual autocannon dread, which can kill almost any non-raider vehicle in the back armour easily as well as kill off heavy infantry.

While true, putting them in the enemies backfeild cover usually keeps them alive longer, and it's not like you really need that 2D6 at 12 inches on their rear, anyway. This is just my experiance, though.

Slarg232 wrote:While true, putting them in the enemies backfeild cover usually keeps them alive longer, and it's not like you really need that 2D6 at 12 inches on their rear, anyway. This is just my experiance, though.

Oblits are great in that they're like the scalpel, able to go in with precision and cut off the offending threat with ease. But they likely die afterwards, and if I'm paying 75 points a model, I'd like them to get off more than one shot.

Jubear wrote:

Night Lords wrote:

Jubear wrote:I cant believe people are trying to argue the case for havocs...Oblits all the way havocs are fail.

I cant believe people ignore facts and go with whatever everyone else says. Hmm more shots, more survivability and at a cheaper price only to lose versatility? Havocs > Oblits.

The reason that everyone argues the case for oblits is......that oblits ARE the better choice. I know everyone likes to think of themselves as unique and thats fine they can go loose with there unique armies.

As for me this hobby is to damn expensive to waste time buying crappy choices from any dex

Yet no one can refute the points that havocs are better (preds as well). All you get are "But oblits are more versatile"! Take a more specialized army for a cheaper cost will always be better. In the case of CSM, standard troop choices are versatile enough with meltas and powerfists that losing versatility for cheaper, more specialized units in heavy is a great trade off.

There is nothing "unique" about it. I have 9 oblits and I used to use them, and theyre junk. They eat up so many points for so little output. This game is about rolling a lot of dice. All the top tier armies do it. Oblits roll 1 per 75 points. Terrible.

But im glad that in the year that I left everything is the same and everyone are still sheep following cookie cutter lists. Makes it much easier to stomp the same 5 armies over and over in tournaments with builds to counter them.

Slarg232 wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:A squad of Havocs in cover has greater resistance to long-range heavy firepower than Oblits do, not having to worry about instant death. A squad of 5 ML havocs with IoCG is 15pts more expensive than a pair of Oblits and puts out twice as many shots. It also can act as a summoning point for cheap LD squads to hold objectives on your side of the table while your expensive assaulty Troops go forward.

You mean, 5 havocs with 4 Missle Launchers right?

Mannahnin wrote:A squad of 5 ML havocs with IoCG is 15pts more expensive than a pair of Oblits and puts out twice as many shots.