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Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Melissia wrote:Right, I'm heavily biased against peoples's ideologies, personalities, and actions, not against their physical traits.


Be equal. hate everyone.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in ph
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cant we just go back to whats really important and start discriminating based on gender instead?

the more women there are in college the less sandwiches are being made in kitchens!

in a more serious note:

i dont know why theres such a big deal here when the less controversial approach wouldve been to just award scholarships based on financial capability and end it there.

it covers all bases really. It wont really change much because it stays more true to the spirit of the initiative anyway: giving a fare shake to the people who would otherwise not have a chance.


Hey, I just met you,
and this is crazy,
but I'm a demon,
possess you, maybe?
 
   
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In your base, ignoring your logic.

Bakerofish wrote:cant we just go back to whats really important and start discriminating based on gender instead?

the more women there are in college the less sandwiches are being made in kitchens!


Classic Sexism.
No seriously it is, learned about it in psychology last week.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





Georgia,just outside Atlanta

Frazzled wrote:
Melissa wrote:Right, I'm heavily biased against people's ideologies, personalities, and actions, not against their physical traits.


Be equal. hate everyone.


See..Now there's a posistion I can get behind.
Screw hating people over what race/gender/sexaul preferance they are...hate them because they are taking up space on your world.


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The Great State of Texas

FITZZ wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Melissa wrote:Right, I'm heavily biased against people's ideologies, personalities, and actions, not against their physical traits.


Be equal. hate everyone.


See..Now there's a posistion I can get behind.
Screw hating people over what race/gender/sexaul preferance they are...hate them because they are taking up space on your world.


In the words of the immortal bard:

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in ph
Druid Warder





halonachos wrote:
Bakerofish wrote:cant we just go back to whats really important and start discriminating based on gender instead?

the more women there are in college the less sandwiches are being made in kitchens!


Classic Sexism.
No seriously it is, learned about it in psychology last week.
'

you just learned about sexism last week?

good for you i guess.


Hey, I just met you,
and this is crazy,
but I'm a demon,
possess you, maybe?
 
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





In your base, ignoring your logic.

There's a difference between modern and classical sexism, you exhibit both my friend.
   
Made in ph
Druid Warder





i wont deny that i have some sexist views but if you thought i was serious with what i said earlier you have bigger problems than i do

hint: "on a more serious note..."

Hey, I just met you,
and this is crazy,
but I'm a demon,
possess you, maybe?
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Yea I caught the sarcasm. You just needed a nice dose dakkamoticons to help with that as this is the internet.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
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United States

Bakerofish wrote:i wont deny that i have some sexist views but if you thought i was serious with what i said earlier you have bigger problems than i do

hint: "on a more serious note..."


Modern sexism is jocular, per many theories anyway.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in gb
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dogma wrote:
Phototoxin wrote:Not racist if its justified.


That doesn't make any sense.

If its racist, then it racist regardless of any circumstance.

I think you meant to say that it is racist, but racism isn't necessarily bad.


Quite possibly I thought today was yesterday as I'm ill.

What I meant was: it's not racist to offer white people opportunities. Just because whites aren't part of a 'minority' doesn't mean they should be discriminated against. This is the justification I was referring to in my own head!

I do disagree with the notion that a one legged black lesbian single mother with an eyepatch gets a job in preference to a more qualified, able bodied white man.
   
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Australia (Recently ravaged by the Hive Fleet Ginger Overlord)

SilverMK2 wrote:Any and all scholarships should be awarded on ability or need, not on race or gender.


I'm with SilverMK2 on this one. This is exactly what scholarships should be doing.

dogma wrote:
Bakerofish wrote:i wont deny that i have some sexist views but if you thought i was serious with what i said earlier you have bigger problems than i do

hint: "on a more serious note..."


Modern sexism is jocular, per many theories anyway.


Vid relevant?



Phototoxin wrote:
dogma wrote:
Phototoxin wrote:Not racist if its justified.


That doesn't make any sense.

If its racist, then it racist regardless of any circumstance.

I think you meant to say that it is racist, but racism isn't necessarily bad.


Quite possibly I thought today was yesterday as I'm ill.

What I meant was: it's not racist to offer white people opportunities. Just because whites aren't part of a 'minority' doesn't mean they should be discriminated against. This is the justification I was referring to in my own head!

I do disagree with the notion that a one legged black lesbian single mother with an eyepatch gets a job in preference to a more qualified, able bodied white man.


Wha-?

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"Good game guys, now lets hit the showers"
 
   
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and here i thought i was being painfully obvious. noted. thanks.

in my opinon (again this is mine) sexism isnt necessarily bad unless its a main factor in your decision making. and again barring your decisons hinging on certain equipment

"Sir, the job requires a functioning uterus..."

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and this is crazy,
but I'm a demon,
possess you, maybe?
 
   
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Beast Coast

Melissia wrote:
Hordini wrote:I'm pretty sure you didn't mean it this way and that this is just an example of poor wording. That said, I just wanted to point out that quite a few people could take serious issue with the implication that white skin is "normal"
In the U.S., white skin is "normal" becuase "whites" are the majority. If someone can't handle simple facts, I can tell them where they can shove their "moral" outrage.

Just because something isn't normal doesn't mean it's bad...



While I agree that not being normal doesn't mean it's bad, I think people take issue with the idea that if white skin is normal, than any skin color other than white is abnormal, which is of course, a pretty abhorrent viewpoint. I would disagree, however, that normalcy is determined based solely on whether or not it's the majority in a certain area.

   
Made in ph
Druid Warder





Hordini wrote:
While I agree that not being normal doesn't mean it's bad, I think people take issue with the idea that if white skin is normal, than any skin color other than white is abnormal, which is of course, a pretty abhorrent viewpoint. I would disagree, however, that normalcy is determined based solely on whether or not it's the majority in a certain area.


but admit it, its a BIG determining factor isnt it?

fun fact: tribal people of different countries, while having no concrete concept of race beyond "us vs them" would kill albino children because they were not normal. a lot of reasons would pop up based on superstition but the underlying fact here is their mindset is "not like us = bad". this doesnt happen with all tribes but is common enough.

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and this is crazy,
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possess you, maybe?
 
   
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Beast Coast

Bakerofish wrote:
Hordini wrote:
While I agree that not being normal doesn't mean it's bad, I think people take issue with the idea that if white skin is normal, than any skin color other than white is abnormal, which is of course, a pretty abhorrent viewpoint. I would disagree, however, that normalcy is determined based solely on whether or not it's the majority in a certain area.


but admit it, its a BIG determining factor isnt it?

fun fact: tribal people of different countries, while having no concrete concept of race beyond "us vs them" would kill albino children because they were not normal. a lot of reasons would pop up based on superstition but the underlying fact here is their mindset is "not like us = bad". this doesnt happen with all tribes but is common enough.



Okay, but being albino doesn't have anything to do with race. There were/are cultures who used to kill babies because they had lots of different conditions or disabilities. Some civilizations used to kill babies based on their gender as well. Does being female somehow make someone abnormal? If the population is 60% male and 40% female, are females all of a sudden abnormal?

That isn't really the crux of the issue though. My point is really more that throwing around the term "normal" in regards to race could easily be considered quite loaded or insensitive language.

   
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In Revelation Space

mauler78 wrote:I In addition, I think that scholarships for athletic ability should be bases of the students abilities in academics, as should all scholarships.


Lolwutt? You think that Athletics should be the main way to to get a scholarship? I think people shouldn't be able to get scholarships at all from athletics. It has no reflection on how smart you are or how you will function in the real world.



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Beast Coast

In regards to the whites-only scholarship however, I think the whole concept is pretty stupid. I don't think race should be a requirement for any scholarship.

   
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Spitsbergen

Scholarships for athletics aren't going anywhere. People like sports, and some people are fortunate enough to be able to win money for their education with their athletic ability.

Not sure what exactly is wrong with that.
   
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@hordini

you missed my point. i wasnt talking about race. I was talking about normalcy

you expect certain things and traits to happen at regular times and when theres a deviation then the deviation is "abnormal"

everyone in my tribe has black hair brown eyes then all of a sudden i got straw colored hair and reddish eyes.

thats abnormal

the male and female example you made is also faulty because everyone expects two genders. youre either a boy or a girl. the abnormalcy would be if all of a sudden you have a hermaphrodite.

what is common is largely determined by what is normal. we take a look at whats common and determine normalcy from there. even in diverse communities you would still consider what was common.

in a multicultural community, having a person with horns would make that person abnormal wouldnt it?


Hey, I just met you,
and this is crazy,
but I'm a demon,
possess you, maybe?
 
   
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Hordini wrote:
Melissia wrote:
Hordini wrote:I'm pretty sure you didn't mean it this way and that this is just an example of poor wording. That said, I just wanted to point out that quite a few people could take serious issue with the implication that white skin is "normal"
In the U.S., white skin is "normal" becuase "whites" are the majority. If someone can't handle simple facts, I can tell them where they can shove their "moral" outrage.

Just because something isn't normal doesn't mean it's bad...



While I agree that not being normal doesn't mean it's bad, I think people take issue with the idea that if white skin is normal, than any skin color other than white is abnormal, which is of course, a pretty abhorrent viewpoint. I would disagree, however, that normalcy is determined based solely on whether or not it's the majority in a certain area.


normal (conforming with or constituting a norm or standard or level or type or social norm; not abnormal)


By strict definition normal is just that, abnormal is a deviation from the norm

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MagickalMemories wrote:How about making another fist?
One can be, "Da Fist uv Mork" and the second can be, "Da Uvver Fist uv Mork."
Make a third, and it can be, "Da Uvver Uvver Fist uv Mork"
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Beast Coast

Bakerofish wrote:@hordini

you missed my point. i wasnt talking about race. I was talking about normalcy

you expect certain things and traits to happen at regular times and when theres a deviation then the deviation is "abnormal"

everyone in my tribe has black hair brown eyes then all of a sudden i got straw colored hair and reddish eyes.

thats abnormal

the male and female example you made is also faulty because everyone expects two genders. youre either a boy or a girl. the abnormalcy would be if all of a sudden you have a hermaphrodite.

what is common is largely determined by what is normal. we take a look at whats common and determine normalcy from there. even in diverse communities you would still consider what was common.

in a multicultural community, having a person with horns would make that person abnormal wouldnt it?




No, I got your point. I know you were talking about normalcy, and I get what you're saying. I wasn't trying to make some nebulous comment about how using the term "normal" in any context could be offensive, but rather how using it in regards to race specifically could be seen as somewhat problematic or offensive.


youbedead wrote:
Hordini wrote:
Melissia wrote:
Hordini wrote:I'm pretty sure you didn't mean it this way and that this is just an example of poor wording. That said, I just wanted to point out that quite a few people could take serious issue with the implication that white skin is "normal"
In the U.S., white skin is "normal" becuase "whites" are the majority. If someone can't handle simple facts, I can tell them where they can shove their "moral" outrage.

Just because something isn't normal doesn't mean it's bad...



While I agree that not being normal doesn't mean it's bad, I think people take issue with the idea that if white skin is normal, than any skin color other than white is abnormal, which is of course, a pretty abhorrent viewpoint. I would disagree, however, that normalcy is determined based solely on whether or not it's the majority in a certain area.


normal (conforming with or constituting a norm or standard or level or type or social norm; not abnormal)


By strict definition normal is just that, abnormal is a deviation from the norm



Yes, and that is exactly what people could take offense at; that being a member of a different race is somehow a deviation from some established norm.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/03/03 01:40:10


   
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Australia (Recently ravaged by the Hive Fleet Ginger Overlord)

Hordini wrote:

Yes, and that is exactly what people could take offense at; that being a member of a different race is somehow a deviation from some established norm.


Things can be true and offensive at the same time. But I'm not sure what this really has to do with the scholarship in question.

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(THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK)

biccat wrote:Racist?

Seems like if the rationale for affirmative action is based on diversity, then there's no problem with this scholarship. If whites are under-represented at some schools, then it would be rationale to include a scholarship for whites. Alternatively, if the proportion of whites at a school isn't proportionate to the population in a given area (e.g. UC Berkeley is only 32% white, while California is 59.5% white), shouldn't there be an outreach towards white students?

Just for fun, substitute "black" or "hispanic" for "white" above.

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for there to be any stigma towards one race getting a race-based scholarship over another, but there is. Why do we immediately think "RACIST" when we see a whites-only scholarship, but "totally OK" when there's a blacks-only scholarship.

* yes, I realize that Huffington Post is generally biased and one article was, to quote a Slate.com editor, "the greatest example of SEO whoring of all time." But hey, they were first on google (wait...)

Background information:
http://www.blacknews.com/directory/black_african_american_scholarships.shtml
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/11/19/us/judge-upholds-blacks-only-scholarship-at-university-of-maryland.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tompkins_v_Alabama_State_University


In institutions with populations that are drawn from a global applicant pool, wouldn't it be natural to have a population with greater diversity then the native surrounding non attending one?

----------------

Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad 
   
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Ah, I see. Honestly I find abnormality to be a good thing, but i see were someone could take offense

H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Balance, playtesting - a casual gamer craves not these things!" - Yoda, a casual gamer.
Three things matter in marksmanship -
location, location, location
MagickalMemories wrote:How about making another fist?
One can be, "Da Fist uv Mork" and the second can be, "Da Uvver Fist uv Mork."
Make a third, and it can be, "Da Uvver Uvver Fist uv Mork"
Eric
 
   
Made in ph
Druid Warder





Hordini wrote:

Yes, and that is exactly what people could take offense at; that being a member of a different race is somehow a deviation from some established norm.


the mere fact you used the word "different" should be your starting point here

when the census of a certain area determines that a "majority" of the population is caucasians then the remaining population, or the "minority" are the deviation from the norm

if i get lost in africa i will accept that i am a deviation from the norm in certain areas.

it helps to think of the word "normal" not just in its adjective sense but in its mathematecal sense as well


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The idea that we live live in a merit based world is more of a fantasy than the people who believe the Na'vi are real. Connections are almost always more important than ability. Goegre w. Bush didn't get into Yale with a C average becuase it was a really solid C average. These institutional connections were long denied or repressed for minorities and that is what these programs are trying to address. There is also the issue of unearned white privilege being dealt with. It is an incredibly complex issue, but the one thing it really isn't isn't doing is promoting the superiority of one race over another.

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Great.

Now when do we get "White Heritage Month"?

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(THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK)

Slarg232 wrote:Great.

Now when do we get "White Heritage Month"?


I think thats like 11 months out of the year.

----------------

Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad 
   
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Ahtman wrote:The idea that we live live in a merit based world is more of a fantasy than the people who believe the Na'vi are real. Connections are almost always more important than ability. Goegre w. Bush didn't get into Yale with a C average becuase it was a really solid C average. These institutional connections were long denied or repressed for minorities and that is what these programs are trying to address. There is also the issue of unearned white privilege being dealt with. It is an incredibly complex issue, but the one thing it really isn't isn't doing is promoting the superiority of one race over another.


Bush had a C average?

ShumaGorath wrote:
Slarg232 wrote:Great.

Now when do we get "White Heritage Month"?


I think thats like 11 months out of the year.


Hehehe.

Smacks wrote:
After the game, pack up all your miniatures, then slap the guy next to you on the ass and say.

"Good game guys, now lets hit the showers"
 
   
 
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