Chapter Traits

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**Kanluwen**

Luco wrote:
I thought actions and drives were considered traits? Tactics aren't a natural trait whereas paranoia is a natural trait, though it is certainly buttressed with the conditioning. There are people who are naturally paranoid, but no one will step foot on a battlefield and tell you what you can do with what without even knowing the capabilities of the units in play.

Paranoia isn't really a 'natural' trait though. It's a learned trait.

With The Lion, he 'learned' to be paranoid as he felt more and more slighted by his fellow Primarchs.

**BluntmanDC**

Uhlan wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Uhlan wrote:The Red Scorpions are probably the least 'flawed' of all Space Marine Chapters.

Nope, that would be the Grey Knights. No corruption, no destabilization, no flaws.

Oddly enough, I never think of the Grey Knights as 'Space Marines' in the same vein as the rest of the Adeptus Astartes. To me, even though they are, in fact Space Marines, they are so far and away 'different' from the norm I place them in the same way I place the Custodes ...in the same brotherhood more or less, but separate and distinct. In both cases above, the gene-seed is 'rumored' to come directly from the Emperor and unless you consider the Emperor the ultimate Space Marine then they are a bit different in that aspect. The primarchs from whom almost all the rest of the Space Marines descend are genetically altered superhumans. From what I understand, the Emperor, depending on which fluff you read, is not an genetically augmented superhuman and may not be 'human' (in the strict sense of the word anyway) in the first place.

Though considering all that I have read, things come to mind about the Grey Knights and the Custodes. I do not know if the Custodes exhibit similar psychic powers as the GK. So what do they receive from the Emperors gene-seed? Is it purity, psychic enhancement, or both? And, being that the Emperor is not a Space Marine and has no Space Marine augmentations how did the GK and Custodes get their Space Marine organs since they do not descend from a primarch or, for that matter, do the primarchs even have the organs of the Space Marines? Am I simply missing something?

Small points of semantics I guess, but it is a pretty interesting discussion.

The primarches are not space marines.

Grey knights are all psychic because they are all recruited from psykers.

Custodes are not space marines, they are made by a totally different process.

**Luco**

Kanluwen wrote:
Luco wrote:
I thought actions and drives were considered traits? Tactics aren't a natural trait whereas paranoia is a natural trait, though it is certainly buttressed with the conditioning. There are people who are naturally paranoid, but no one will step foot on a battlefield and tell you what you can do with what without even knowing the capabilities of the units in play.

Paranoia isn't really a 'natural' trait though. It's a learned trait.

With The Lion, he 'learned' to be paranoid as he felt more and more slighted by his fellow Primarchs.

He was paranoid and secretive before that. He refused to talk to anyone, even Luther, about what happened during the time that he lived in the forests of Caliban.

**Kanluwen**

Luco wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Luco wrote:
I thought actions and drives were considered traits? Tactics aren't a natural trait whereas paranoia is a natural trait, though it is certainly buttressed with the conditioning. There are people who are naturally paranoid, but no one will step foot on a battlefield and tell you what you can do with what without even knowing the capabilities of the units in play.

Paranoia isn't really a 'natural' trait though. It's a learned trait.

With The Lion, he 'learned' to be paranoid as he felt more and more slighted by his fellow Primarchs.

He was paranoid and secretive before that. He refused to talk to anyone, even Luther, about what happened during the time that he lived in the forests of Caliban.

That's not necessarily paranoia or even being secretive though.

Look at any cases of 'Wild Children' that have been studied by psychologists. They almost never talk about what happened while they lived in the wilderness.

**Doop Dude**

Raven Guard have pale skin and black hair, I believe.

This has already been referred to, but Black Templars are missing the organs which allow them to spit acid and go into suspended animation. For me, this just seemed like it was written by a bunch of 12-year-olds who said "OMG guys, how cool would this be!"

Doop.

**Kanluwen**

Doop Dude wrote:Raven Guard have pale skin and black hair, I believe.

This has already been referred to, but Black Templars are missing the organs which allow them to spit acid and go into suspended animation. For me, this just seemed like it was written by a bunch of 12-year-olds who said "OMG guys, how cool would this be!"

The acid thing and the suspended animation(notice: only when they've been critically wounded, and only for a short amount of time) have existed since early on in the background of Space Marines.

I'm not sure why people think these two traits are 'childish'.

The acid thing isn't like they're spraying a gigantic stream of acid ala a Great Unclean One.

They can, when necessary, spit a barely caustic acid which at best will blind an unhelmeted Astartes. Given enough time, it will eat through restraints or things of that nature--but it's by no means a get out of jail free card.

**Dark**

Kanluwen wrote:
Doop Dude wrote:Raven Guard have pale skin and black hair, I believe.

This has already been referred to, but Black Templars are missing the organs which allow them to spit acid and go into suspended animation. For me, this just seemed like it was written by a bunch of 12-year-olds who said "OMG guys, how cool would this be!"

The acid thing and the suspended animation(notice: only when they've been critically wounded, and only for a short amount of time) have existed since early on in the background of Space Marines.

I'm not sure why people think these two traits are 'childish'.

The acid thing isn't like they're spraying a gigantic stream of acid ala a Great Unclean One.

They can, when necessary, spit a barely caustic acid which at best will blind an unhelmeted Astartes. Given enough time, it will eat through restraints or things of that nature--but it's by no means a get out of jail free card.

Tell that to Loken, on Blood Quest. He uses his acidic saliva to corrode the bars of the cell he's put into by chaos cultists.

**Kanluwen**

Dark wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Doop Dude wrote:Raven Guard have pale skin and black hair, I believe.

This has already been referred to, but Black Templars are missing the organs which allow them to spit acid and go into suspended animation. For me, this just seemed like it was written by a bunch of 12-year-olds who said "OMG guys, how cool would this be!"

The acid thing and the suspended animation(notice: only when they've been critically wounded, and only for a short amount of time) have existed since early on in the background of Space Marines.

I'm not sure why people think these two traits are 'childish'.

The acid thing isn't like they're spraying a gigantic stream of acid ala a Great Unclean One.

They can, when necessary, spit a barely caustic acid which at best will blind an unhelmeted Astartes. Given enough time, it will eat through restraints or things of that nature--but it's by no means a get out of jail free card.

Tell that to Loken, on Blood Quest. He uses his acidic saliva to corrode the bars of the cell he's put into by chaos cultists.

...Yes, because let's cite terrible novels as fantastic examples of canon! I heard that Fire Warriors can kill Marines in hand to hand combat and that Razorbacks can transform into Land Raiders and Terminators do backflips for fun!

Or let's ignore that I said "given enough time, it will eat through restraints or things of that nature".

**Dark**

I don't know those novels xD I avoid them, I'm talking about a really old comic

**EmilCrane**

Doop Dude wrote:

This has already been referred to, but Black Templars are missing the organs which allow them to spit acid and go into suspended animation. For me, this just seemed like it was written by a bunch of 12-year-olds who said "OMG guys, how cool would this be!"

All descendants of the imperial fists lack this, well, maybe not the more recent founding, but definitely the CFs and BTs. And the ability to spit acid and go into suspended animation has been around for a long time man. Marines can do a lot of unusual things that the fluff usually glosses over.

**Kanluwen**

Dark wrote:I don't know those novels xD I avoid them, I'm talking about a really old comic

Yeah, but that same scenario has been presented before in novels.

Seemingly: the acid has varied in power over the years. Whether it's intentional or it just was a result of the pre-Goto 'factchecking' era I can't say.

But "Purging of Kadillus" presents a pretty good example of the acid's potency. A Dark Angels Chaplain has his helmet's systems compromised, and is forced to rip it off to see the Ork he's fighting. He's pinned, getting his arse handed to him and he opts to spit acid at the Ork before he blacks out.

Bear in mind: this is against an Ork Boy. One single member of the Ork's footsoldiery against a Dark Angel Chaplain who's over a hundred+ years old, spent in constant warfare.
The acid does nothing except barely disorient the Ork.

I'm definitely calling that not really a "big deal".

**Dark**

Oi! Diz hummie has weird dakka in his mouth!

**Happygrunt**

Tsons are all dusty.

**Conservationist**

Well, the thousand sons are not even 'there', then again they are not even loyalists (not like they can choose).
If you mean traits, the mortifactors indulge in grisly blood rituals and decorate thier home with skulls.

**Doop Dude**

EmilCrane wrote:Marines can do a lot of unusual things that the fluff usually glosses over.

As I said, I like it how the fluff glosses over it. I don't own 5th Ed. Space Marines, but does it say anything about it in there?

Kanluwen wrote:
Doop Dude wrote:Raven Guard have pale skin and black hair, I believe.

This has already been referred to, but Black Templars are missing the organs which allow them to spit acid and go into suspended animation. For me, this just seemed like it was written by a bunch of 12-year-olds who said "OMG guys, how cool would this be!"

The acid thing and the suspended animation(notice: only when they've been critically wounded, and only for a short amount of time) have existed since early on in the background of Space Marines.

I'm not sure why people think these two traits are 'childish'.

The acid thing isn't like they're spraying a gigantic stream of acid ala a Great Unclean One.

They can, when necessary, spit a barely caustic acid which at best will blind an unhelmeted Astartes. Given enough time, it will eat through restraints or things of that nature--but it's by no means a get out of jail free card.

I still don't get how this isn't childish? It makes me think of the scene from the movie Sky High, where they are testing all the powers out, and one guy spits acid and it melts through concrete.

Besides, if Lysander broke out of his chains by spitting acid on them, it would be 100% less cool in my mind.

**EmilCrane**

Doop Dude wrote:
EmilCrane wrote:Marines can do a lot of unusual things that the fluff usually glosses over.

As I said, I like it how the fluff glosses over it. I don't own 5th Ed. Space Marines, but does it say anything about it in there?

No idea, but in one of the Ultramarine books, the one with the Tau where Graham McNeil tries to guilt trip us about iraq again and he kills off a bunch of characters unnecessarily (but the cover art is spiffy) one of the marines eats a tau's brain and figures out how to pilot a pirhana, so it crops up every now and then

**Conservationist**

Being able to learn by eating is a trait all space marines have, assuming no mutations affect the organ in charge of this process. The organ is called the Omophagea and makes me think, when space marines eat, do they absorb the memories of whatever grox they consume or feelings of the brocolli they eat.