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I really don't see why EW was necessary in the first place. Remember, losing your last wound could just mean you've been knocked out. Maybe the krak missile just convinced Yarrick to take a little nap...

Shattershard from the DE Codex.

Template weapon that requires you to take a toughness test. You fail it, the model is gone. It is a single shot weapon though, and there can only be one per army taken by a Haemonculus.

I know the that the Daemons can take Boon of Mutation on some of the Greater Daemons and a few Heralds(I think). 6" range and can be used in or out of assault at pretty much any time. If you hit with it, then it is the same toughness test or gone rule.

Of course, who can forget Jaws.

Yeah, and even taking a toughness test, GEQ will be taking 50% casualties, and MEQs will be taking fewer. Anything with T6 would be fine, with no chance of being wounded.

Not to mention Jaws only goes in a straight line, so unless you've bunched your models up completely, he'll only be able to snipe one or two of them. Of course that can be significant, but it is possible to defend against Jaws.

ChrisWWII wrote:Yeah, and even taking a toughness test, GEQ will be taking 50% casualties, and MEQs will be taking fewer. Anything with T6 would be fine, with no chance of being wounded.

Not to mention Jaws only goes in a straight line, so unless you've bunched your models up completely, he'll only be able to snipe one or two of them. Of course that can be significant, but it is possible to defend against Jaws.

Actually you always fail on a 6...just like you always miss on a 1


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I never said that there was a dire need for something to defend against it. However, I do believe no attack should be entirely indefensible. Isn't that the basic definition of broken or overpowered? No defense?

I have no problem with these type of attacks. I just think there should be a way to defend against them, or grant immunity or a save or something. Just like Eternal Warrior grants a defense against instant death. Or maybe remove from table or play should be reclassified as a type of instant death, as one poster commented.

Well no, because you can still have rare attacks that have no defense, they just have to have some other way to balnce them out. Just like how the SAG has just as high chance of killing its user, as removing the target from the table, or JotWW can lead to perils of the Warp, etc. etc.

Those can balance it out just as much as defense, and I think there are a grna dtotal of 7 things in all of 40k that lead to 'removed from table'. It's not that big of a deal to need fixing.

Come April 2nd there'll be one less remove from table mechanic in the game. No more force-weaponing EWs off the table because an old rule created a loophole...

Can someone explain how a winged daemon prince dies to JOTWW?

Really, remove from play should be far more rare than they are right now, most of them instead being instant death...


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UberhAxTHC wrote:Can someone explain how a winged daemon prince dies to JOTWW?

Because... uhm...

HEY LOOK MATT WARD'S OVER THERE!

*runs*

I personally feel that their shouldn't be a resist to it. The reason being is, that in most of the cases they are being toss into the warp, or mutated into something different or drop into a Earthquake. How would one defend against something like that if you got hit out of the blue with it.

Alastergrimm wrote:I personally feel that their shouldn't be a resist to it. The reason being is, that in most of the cases they are being toss into the warp, or mutated into something different or drop into a Earthquake. How would one defend against something like that if you got hit out of the blue with it.

The same way that you defend against getting shot by a Vengeance Cannon: You get Eternal Warrior.

Alastergrimm wrote:I personally feel that their shouldn't be a resist to it. The reason being is, that in most of the cases they are being toss into the warp, or mutated into something different or drop into a Earthquake. How would one defend against something like that if you got hit out of the blue with it.

Getting out of the way?

alot of the effect are more or less "SURPRISE!" I am doing something horrible to you! Like Ezekial's Mind Worms...while yes, it does have a very low chance of success. I would have a hard time finding a way to defend against someone driving me insane on the spot.

Personally I would:

Remove the current Instant Death Rule

Remove the Eternal Warrior rule

Add a new Instant Death rule that is simply if hit by an ID attack then "remove from play" (so ID is effectively a weapon/attack property like Poison)

Restrict the new ID rule to exotic attacks like Wraithcannons, Shattershard etc

(On a side note I'd change JotWW so that it is S5, rolls to wound vs models Initiative, no AP but inflicts ID).

There really shouldn't be a need to counter "remove from play". It's not the new ID: It's a far worse (and far less likely) form of death that pretty much removes any chance of you trying to get about it. I mean unless you decide to allow invun saves for the models in question but even then that's a real push since, well, an invun save shouldn't really save you from being swallowed into the Warp... begs the question why Librarians can do this in regards to Perils of the Warp.

I'm sure the rule in question is the shattershard and hexrifle?

Nothing should be immune to it, imo. It's usually reserved to pretty insane stuff.

Juvieus Kaine wrote:begs the question why Librarians can do this in regards to Perils of the Warp.

Becasue they're cool.

Won't save them from becomming a squig though.

Alastergrimm wrote:I personally feel that their shouldn't be a resist to it. The reason being is, that in most of the cases they are being toss into the warp, or mutated into something different or drop into a Earthquake. How would one defend against something like that if you got hit out of the blue with it.

Of course, for a daemon, being tossed into the warp shouldn't be something that removes them from game. They come from the Warp in the first place. If anything, it should just place them in reserve.

Well, fluff wise if they've been banished from the mortal world they need some time before they can reappear again.

You are not really being banished if you are just thrown into the portal/rift/burned through by fateweaver hole, you entered/phased through...

Riveted to the table

The character is immune and cannot be taken out of the game unless the games ends. If the character is put out of combat, lay it on the game table until said game ends.

LOL GW, we may see something like this xD

Footsloggin wrote:You are not really being banished if you are just thrown into the portal/rift/burned through by fateweaver hole, you entered/phased through...

But they're not throwing them back through the portal, they're slaying their physical manifestations, which banishes the essence of the daemon back to the Warp.

Removed from table encompasses alot of things, like being teleported into the warp, banished (in the case of Daemons), thrown into space, alternate reality, transmuted into something else (usually a blob of flesh), or just thoroughly, thoroughly obliterated on a level so tiny atoms would seem galaxy sized.