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rigeld2 wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:But the answer has no specific mention to Ahriman, it just states that PSA's can only be used once per turn whereas non PSA's can be used multiple times, the same was said for Eldar Farseers in the old rules

Your best argument would be that specific to the Chaos Codex, non-PSAs can be used an unlimited amount. Generally, they can't without stating an exception. Hammerhand has no such exception.

Neither do Eldar or Chaos, however you can use them more than once, hence why it can be debatable whether they can use hammerhand more than once.

Those powers specifically mentioned have permission - and the rest of the Chaos Codex has arguable permission. Eldar may or may not have permission based on their codex/FAQ.

The BRB FAQ is pretty explicit.

The BRB is for fantasy, wrong book mate.

They do not have permission, it says in the chaos codex you can use more than one psychic power per turn bar PSA's, but it doesn't say you can use the same one more than once, so you are incorrect.

rigeld2 wrote:Those powers specifically mentioned have permission - and the rest of the Chaos Codex has arguable permission.

Except they don't have permission:

Gift of Chaos can be used multiple times

Why can it be used multiple times?

as it is not a psychic shooting attack

GOC can be used multiple times, as it is not a psychic shooting attack. Therefore, non-psychic shooting attacks can be used multiple times.

If the main rulebook says you can't use non-psychic shooting attacks multiple times, then it may overrule the Chaos Codex FAQ.

It wouldn't override the Chaos FAQ because the Chaos FAQ is more specific then the BRB* FAQ.

*(BRB is an accepted acronym for both the Fantesy and 40k rulebooks)

*(BRB is an accepted acronym for both the Fantesy and 40k rulebooks)

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:
The BRB is for fantasy, wrong book mate.

What?
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2170001a_40k_Rulebook_FAQ_Version_1_5_January_2012.pdf
Page 3 under the Psykers section.

They do not have permission, it says in the chaos codex you can use more than one psychic power per turn bar PSA's, but it doesn't say you can use the same one more than once, so you are incorrect.

The answer gives permission. But it's irrelevant and I don't feel like arguing about the Chaos FAQ - the BRB one directly applies and says you cannot.

Considering that the main rule book isn't grey anymore it doesn't seem fitting.

In fact, its red now so it really is the Big Red Book

biccat wrote:If the main rulebook says you can't use non-psychic shooting attacks multiple times, then it may overrule the Chaos Codex FAQ.

The main rulebook FAQ does say that, as I quoted.

And as specific>general then the specific Chaos FAQ will overrule the general BRB FAQ.


So chaos psykers can cast the same non-PSA power as many times as they are allowed to cast psychic powers. Arhiman can spawnify 3 unfortunates a trun.

Grey Templar wrote:And as specific>general then the specific Chaos FAQ will overrule the general BRB FAQ.


So chaos psykers can cast the same non-PSA power as many times as they are allowed to cast psychic powers. Arhiman can spawnify 3 unfortunates a trun.

Which is what I was trying to get at when I was accused of using a Fantasy FAQ - when they don't even use Psykers (do they? I thought it was all Magic)

edit: I understand mistakes happen.

Grey Templar wrote:Considering that the main rule book isn't grey anymore it doesn't seem fitting.

In fact, its red now so it really is the Big Red Book

It's grey with a red picture on the front.

I see gift of chaos given specific permission, as is warptime. Main rulebook FAQ says unless a power has specific permission...hammerhand no specific.

Ahriman has specific allowance to cast the same power multiple times, which is what the FAQ is referring to. People were trying to claim you could use this multiple power to cast the samePSA more than once, which breaks the more specific only-one-weapon-per-turn rule

The BRB FAQ is more specific than the Chaos FAQ when it comes to anything non-Ahriman

Chaos Space Marine FAQ

Q. Can Ahriman use the same power two or even three
times during the same turn? (p50)

A. Powers that are psychic shooting attacks can only be
used once per turn. Gift of Chaos can be used multiple
times, as it is not a psychic shooting attack. The same is
true for Warptime, but of course there is no point in
using this power more than once per turn!

I think the red portion is the part that gives people pause.

I can see how it leads people to believe it applies to all non PSAs because the language implies that the conclusion (that you can use a non PSA like Gift of Chaos multiple times) is based on a single premise (that it is not a PSA).

However, the way I understand it, this particular FAQ answer only says the following, in descending order of assurance:

Can Ahriman use the same PSA more than once per turn? No.
Can Ahriman use Gift of Chaos and Warptime more than once per turn? Yes.
Can Ahriman use other non PSA psychic powers (other than GoT and Warptime) more than once per turn? Not expressly permitted.
Can any other model in the CSM codex use GoT and Warptime more than once per turn? Not expressly permitted.
Can any other model in the CSM codex use other non PSA psychic powers (other than GoT and Warptime) more than once per turn? Not expressly permitted.
Can any other model NOT in the CSM codex use other non PSA psychic powers more than once per turn? Not even addressed.

Really it's just the top two that are 100% correct. Everything is only implied, at best, from the somewhat loose language.

At least that's how I see it.

DoW

DogOfWar wrote:At least that's how I see it.

Agreed.

Grey Templar wrote:Considering that the main rule book isn't grey anymore it doesn't seem fitting.

In fact, its red now so it really is the Big Red Book

Wow! The front cover is red! Have you bothered looking at the entire back, sides and edges of the front?
Hint - they are all grey!

- BGB

cheapbuster wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Considering that the main rule book isn't grey anymore it doesn't seem fitting.

In fact, its red now so it really is the Big Red Book

Wow! The front cover is red! Have you bothered looking at the entire back, sides and edges of the front?
Hint - they are all grey!

- BGB

BRB, to me, stands for basic rule book.
Being colorblind I try not to use colors for reference.

rigeld2 wrote:BRB, to me, stands for basic rule book.
Being colorblind I try not to use colors for reference.

And here I thought it meant Big Rule Book (as compared to the Small Rule Book that comes with Black Reach). Granted the rule pages are the same, but...