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UberhAxTHC wrote:Swordmasters have great weapons though...they don't get to reroll misses, do they? I thought having a great weapon meant striking last, but because of the Always Strikes First, it goes back to Initiative order...but they don't get the reroll on hits, do they? o.0

Check your FAQ. Basically, High Elves are so awesome that even with GWs they ignore the ASL from the GW and keep their ASF for being pointy eared elf things High Elves. So yes, you do get ASF and thus the re-roll if your Init. is equal to or higher than theirs.

UberhAxTHC wrote:Yeah, so I just started playing Fantasy, after playing 40k for like 2 years, with my friends, who just started his orcs...so I can't help it if I don't understand all the rules...but some people are just pricks...I hope all fantasy players don't exploit newbs like this...

No worries on still learning the rules. I've only been playing since 8th came out myself, and I still look up rules all the time. My best suggestion would be for you to play a few games with your Orc (apparently it's Orc in Fantasy and Ork in 40k) buddy, that way you can take your time going through the rules as you play out the turn. It may take longer, but it really is the best way to get a thorough grasp of the rules.


But yeah, if the dude is TFG than call him out on it and then don't play him again until he shapes up. There's underhanded tricks that Skaven love, and then there's just plain cheating.

Edited for correction to ASF!

streamdragon wrote:

UberhAxTHC wrote:Swordmasters have great weapons though...they don't get to reroll misses, do they? I thought having a great weapon meant striking last, but because of the Always Strikes First, it goes back to Initiative order...but they don't get the reroll on hits, do they? o.0

Check your FAQ. Basically, High Elves are so awesome that even with GWs they ignore the ASL from the GW and keep their ASF for being pointy eared elf things High Elves. So yes, you do get ASF and thus the re-roll if your Init. is higher than theirs.

I believe they reroll to hit if their initiative is equal to or higher than their opponents.

spaceelf wrote:

streamdragon wrote:

UberhAxTHC wrote:Swordmasters have great weapons though...they don't get to reroll misses, do they? I thought having a great weapon meant striking last, but because of the Always Strikes First, it goes back to Initiative order...but they don't get the reroll on hits, do they? o.0

Check your FAQ. Basically, High Elves are so awesome that even with GWs they ignore the ASL from the GW and keep their ASF for being pointy eared elf things High Elves. So yes, you do get ASF and thus the re-roll if your Init. is higher than theirs.

I believe they reroll to hit if their initiative is equal to or higher than their opponents.

You are correct!

Grey Templar wrote:Tzeench bakes the best cookies, but his Health coverage is random. lots of fine print that changes quite often.

Better than Lizards, no one's certain if the Slaan would come up with a Health Plan by the end of the century.

definitly call the guy out if he is cheating.


Insist on double checking ALL his movement.


NEVER take anything he says at face value. if it sounds fishy, it probably is.

UberhAxTHC wrote:How do you beat a Skaven army? It seems impossible to me. They take blocks of 40 clanrats, and you can't win combat against them. I charged one of these 40 block clanrat regiments with my high elf swordmasters, inflicted wounds while he inflicted none, and still lost combat, and actually ran away and was caught, and wiped out. On the charge. Against clanrats. What the hell? Is this supposed to happen? Or is this just the way 8th runs now? If I don't have full squads of 40 in every regiment, am I going to lose every combat? It sure seems that way. What am I supposed to do about this? I'm not the only one either - I saw an orc player go against the same Skaven army. His black orcs, his BLACK ORCS, lost combat to the dumbass 40 clanrat regiment, ran, and was caught, all because of outnumbering and rank bonuses. Seriously...what to do about this? Please help?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not trolling btw...seriously need some advice here before I cry because I lost to rat men again...

Well, like my sig says - my Old Blood took out a block of Clan rats in two turns, only taking a single would from them.

But, that was because I got some really lucky rolls (I never usually do) and the Skaven failed their leadership the second turn, and only fled like 3 inches or something ridiculous.

To win against skaven you HAVE to kill their general and BSB(which one takes priority depends on army comp) by like turn 3 so you can break those slave units and go after the units that give points...

Skaven aren't that bad in the grand scheme of things. They can be nasty, but well built armies can deal with them. It's no different than any other army...things just don't die unless you have ways of breaking stubborn and getting rid of the BSB/General.

It just sounds like it's basic ignorance of how Fantasy works at it's core. A big block of anything is always going to be at an advantage, especially if they charge. It's not about how many wounds you do, it's all about combat resolution. Your putting yourself in a situation where you have to do 3-4 wounds more than the opponent in order to possibly win combat. Your swordmasters should have been able to do it if you hadn't forgotten your rules. Your Orks had a good chance as well but apparently whiffed.

And in both situations that's just winning combat by a little bit. Because of the "wonderful" steadfast coupled with the way leadership works rule big blocks will still stick around and you haven't really accomplished much. Unless you can grind them down or figure out a way to screw over their leadership your not really doing much.

So to answer your original question...You don't have to take big blocks in order to win combat. However, you better have another plan to either thin out big blocks before combat so they won't be steadfast...or have a good plan to deal with stubborn units.

The problem with skaven big blocks is they are steadfast, leadership 10 for 2-3 rounds for only 100 points....

When they finally do break you spent a few turns for a whopping 100 points... In that time they probably got another of their 100 point unit of slaves ready to tarpit you again...

This coupled with the fact that they can shoot into those 100 point blocks, have imo, the best "super spell" in existance, and extremely powerful shooting, makes them the best army in 8th edition...

A well built skaven list could be compared to the daemons of 7th edition.

ShivanAngel wrote:The problem with skaven big blocks is they are steadfast, leadership 10 for 2-3 rounds for only 100 points....

When they finally do break you spent a few turns for a whopping 100 points... In that time they probably got another of their 100 point unit of slaves ready to tarpit you again...

This coupled with the fact that they can shoot into those 100 point blocks, have imo, the best "super spell" in existance, and extremely powerful shooting, makes them the best army in 8th edition...

A well built skaven list could be compared to the daemons of 7th edition.

A flank charge might not break steadfast, but it will deny them their rank bonus. That drags their Ld down 3 points, and steadfast 7 is definitely preferable to steadfast 10.

I will definitely agree on Skaven having wonderful shooting (I even love my Jezzails...), but I'd argue that Dwellers is a better uber-spell. Can kill a character from inside his unit, hits everything in the unit (removing 1/2 a skaven core unit on average), no save, no MR (both like the 13th). Basically 13th is great against small elite units, but Dwellers is useful for any size unit, including characters. It's also in one of the most annoying Lores to deal with...

HE are a very tough army to beat if built right. For the point value you're currently playing at I'd suggest grabbing a mage with Life. It will offset the weaknesses of your army (namely toughness) and put out some other really cool buffs and damaging spells. Dwellers will drastically reduce the size of that rat block before they even see combat. Other than that i'd recommend going through the rules again and getting a better handle on combat res. Sounds to me like you got cheated on the res.

Not to mention at lower point levels skaven excell more then they do at higher point levels.

really? why? ...

as far as I can see they get sicker the more toys they can bring to the party...

Cause for 300 points you can take units of 50 slaves which is more then most entire armies have model count wise.... and you still have 700 points left to spend.

Varl Sigmund wrote:really? why? ...

as far as I can see they get sicker the more toys they can bring to the party...

The toys aren't broken, it's the 2 points slaves. you can have several large blocks on low points costs and still have enough for magic and toys, which is simply silly when everybody else struggles with two or three small units.