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I wasn't referring to a specific piece of fluff. More a general statement of space wolves mentality, based on my comment on Lukas's pistol

That said they are the chapter least likely to agonise over using alien gear in a pinch, then ditching it

Kommissar Kel wrote:There is a valid reason for the Ad-mech Biologis magos to have said that their weapons work via psychic powers

Because he's a religious nutjob who refuses to accept that xenos technology actually works?

Or because he's a religious nutjob who opened up a shoota and found to to be filled with packing peanuts and duct tape, but it still somehow worked for the ork they took it from

A lot of ork teck isn't ork made and works just fine, but why are you against the established fluff that ork-built tech shouldn't work but yet it does?

Necron tech shouldn't work, but it does. It's 'theoretically impossible'.

Pimp-slapping a knight shouldn't repair it, but apparently it does...

A lot of stuff in this game shouldn't work, and yet does

Ascalam wrote:Or because he's a religious nutjob who opened up a shoota and found to to be filled with packing peanuts and duct tape, but it still somehow worked for the ork they took it from

That is not the case.

That is old fluff that has long since been retconned, and the game is better without such nonsense. Orks are NOT powerful psykers. Weirdboyz are, but orks individually are not. They cannot warp reality to suit their needs, making the impossible possible through sheer force of belief. That's something an alpha level psyker can do, not your average Ork boy. Can a group of Orks, with their collective gestalt psychic field, cause a shoota to jam less often? Sure. Can they make a trukk go fasta if it's painted red and they think that makes things faster? Sure. But making what basically amounts to pointing a stick at an enemy and wanting it real hard turn into a direct psychic attack on them? No. Most assuredly not.

Melissia wrote:That is old fluff that has long since been retconned, and the game is better without such nonsense. Orks are NOT powerful psykers. Weirdboyz are, but orks individually are not. They cannot warp reality to suit their needs, making the impossible possible through sheer force of belief. That's something an alpha level psyker can do, not your average Ork boy. Can a group of Orks, with their collective gestalt psychic field, cause a shoota to jam less often? Sure. Can they make a trukk go fasta if it's painted red and they think that makes things faster? Sure. But making what basically amounts to pointing a stick at an enemy and wanting it real hard turn into a direct psychic attack on them? No. Most assuredly not.

Can da'Boyz still board, hijack and fly off with a fuel-less vessel?

Melissia wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Or because he's a religious nutjob who opened up a shoota and found to to be filled with packing peanuts and duct tape, but it still somehow worked for the ork they took it from

That is not the case.

That is old fluff that has long since been retconned, and the game is better without such nonsense. Orks are NOT powerful psykers. Weirdboyz are, but orks individually are not. They cannot warp reality to suit their needs, making the impossible possible through sheer force of belief. That's something an alpha level psyker can do, not your average Ork boy. Can a group of Orks, with their collective gestalt psychic field, cause a shoota to jam less often? Sure. Can they make a trukk go fasta if it's painted red and they think that makes things faster? Sure. But making what basically amounts to pointing a stick at an enemy and wanting it real hard turn into a direct psychic attack on them? No. Most assuredly not.

It's not old fluff though

Its in the CURRENT ork codex

Wierdboys are psychic channels for the energy generated by the orks as a whole- again- current codex fluff. It's not a bog--standard ork boy warping reality. Its a million boys all warping reality Sometimes it overflows, and discharges through any nearby wierdboys. Its not that wierdboys are trained psykers, more that they're lightning rods for the waagh.

Some ork weapons won't work at all unless used by an ork - current codex fluff.

Have you even read the current ork codex?

Pointing a stick- no it wont. Wire-wrappig a stick and mounting it on wheels, with a a box of wiring that doesn't make sense. Yes it will. A stick has no tech, a zzapp gun looks like it could work, and so it does.

If you can believe that space nuns can get forcefields on their armour through prayer then why can't you accept that orks can pull that kind of crap too?

Melissia wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Or because he's a religious nutjob who opened up a shoota and found to to be filled with packing peanuts and duct tape, but it still somehow worked for the ork they took it from

That is not the case.

That is old fluff that has long since been retconned, and the game is better without such nonsense. Orks are NOT powerful psykers. Weirdboyz are, but orks individually are not. They cannot warp reality to suit their needs, making the impossible possible through sheer force of belief. That's something an alpha level psyker can do, not your average Ork boy. Can a group of Orks, with their collective gestalt psychic field, cause a shoota to jam less often? Sure. Can they make a trukk go fasta if it's painted red and they think that makes things faster? Sure. But making what basically amounts to pointing a stick at an enemy and wanting it real hard turn into a direct psychic attack on them? No. Most assuredly not.

How exactly does fluff that still exists in the current codex get considered "old fluff that has long since been retconned"?

Lukas Anzion's statement on page 10 of the Ork Codex still keeps the conventions true: "For instance, it is widely believed in Ork society that machines painted in a red color operate faster. As disturbing as it sounds, 'facts' such as this become true. Many captured Ork weapons and items of equipment do not work unless wielded by an Ork. I theorise that many Ork inventions work because the Orks themselves believe that they should work - the strong telekinetic abilities of the Ork subconscious somehow ensure they function as desired."

Kanluwen wrote:Nothing about the description of the inhabitants of Hinzerhaus points to the Eldar.

I'm pretty sure that the original inhabitants were described as slightly taller than men but quite spindly sort of. It sounded quite like eldar to me.

Melissia wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Or because he's a religious nutjob who opened up a shoota and found to to be filled with packing peanuts and duct tape, but it still somehow worked for the ork they took it from

That is not the case.

That is old fluff that has long since been retconned, and the game is better without such nonsense. Orks are NOT powerful psykers. Weirdboyz are, but orks individually are not. They cannot warp reality to suit their needs, making the impossible possible through sheer force of belief. That's something an alpha level psyker can do, not your average Ork boy. Can a group of Orks, with their collective gestalt psychic field, cause a shoota to jam less often? Sure. Can they make a trukk go fasta if it's painted red and they think that makes things faster? Sure. But making what basically amounts to pointing a stick at an enemy and wanting it real hard turn into a direct psychic attack on them? No. Most assuredly not.

I guess you don't own the current ork codex, or are increadibly stubborn and rather enjoy digging deeper in to the pit

BluntmanDC wrote:I guess you don't own the current ork codex, or are increadibly stubborn and rather enjoy digging deeper in to the pit

I own it and have read it. You people should try reading it like you say I should, because you're not reading it.

The most recent ocdex is where my information comes from, along with Dark Heresy, Deathwatch, and Black Library. The nonsensical crap about how Ork weapons don't work in the hands of non-Orks is false, and has been that way for some time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kommissar Kel wrote:How exactly does fluff that still exists in the current codex"

It doesn't. All there is is a Magos Genetor's uneducated opinion, influenced by his religion which loathes xenos technology.

They also say that Tau technology shouldn't work too.

Melissia wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:I guess you don't own the current ork codex, or are increadibly stubborn and rather enjoy digging deeper in to the pit

I own it and have read it. You people should try reading it like you say I should, because you're not reading it.

The most recent ocdex is where my information comes from, along with Dark Heresy, Deathwatch, and Black Library. The nonsensical crap about how Ork weapons don't work in the hands of non-Orks is false, and has been that way for some time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kommissar Kel wrote:How exactly does fluff that still exists in the current codex"

It doesn't. All there is is a Magos Genetor's uneducated opinion, influenced by his religion which loathes xenos technology.

They also say that Tau technology shouldn't work too.

Not exactly, Melissa. But your still in the right of it
The Magos states: "Many captured Ork weapons and items of equipment do not work unless wielded by an Ork.

This is not a "uneducated opinion, influenced by his religion," this is an observation. And one an observation he is fully qualified to make.

And since you brought up the Fantasy Flight Games, please see the below ability Ork player characters get in the Rouge Trader Game:

Into The Storm: The Explorer's Handbook wrote:
Make It Work
For reasons still baffling to the Imperium, Orks seem to be
able to make their own technology function when by all
rights it shouldn’t. Any Ork weapon with the Unreliable
quality is not considered to be Unreliable when wielded by
an Ork.

As all Ork weapons are Unreliable in this game, this implies that it is at least harder for non Orks to use Ork weapons. But not impossible.
So "nonsensical crap" isn't gone it's just been toned down.

There's a difference between 'gun being slightly more reliable when wielded by ork compared to non-ork' and 'stick can shoot bullets when an ork thinks it can'.

The FFG actually supports Melissia's argument. The WAAGH! field improves the quality of Ork weapons, but it doesn't make functionless pieces of metal into guns.

ChrisWWII wrote:There's a difference between 'gun being slightly more reliable when wielded by ork compared to non-ork' and 'stick can shoot bullets when an ork thinks it can'.

The FFG actually supports Melissia's argument. The WAAGH! field improves the quality of Ork weapons, but it doesn't make functionless pieces of metal into guns.

I know it does... that's why I said she was right, but not exactly right. Because there are still elements of the "only orks can use ork weapons" involved in it. It's just highly toned down to, only orks can get full functionality out f their weapons.

stick can shoot bullets when an ork thinks it can

I never said this. I was supporting Melissa with the quotes for what she was arguing.

Since only melissa has made the comment that a stick can shoot bullets in the first place..

My example (above) was with a zzapp gun. Wire-winding a log and hooking it up to wierdly wired breadboards and a generator works. Stick alone doesn't. It needs at least a pretense at tech.

It is established that many (not all, many) ork devices only work in the hands of an ork. I see no direct refutation of this fluff. The fact that ork weapons can be made to work by non-orks doesn't refute the fact that some don't work for non-orks.

That said orks can make a copper stick become a power weapon by force of sheer orkyness.

Ascalam wrote:Since only melissa has made the comment that a stick can shoot bullets in the first place..

False. I merely exaggerated the position when I said that-- yes, people in this thread argue that Ork weapons have no working parts and work because OMG MAGIC.

Don't ask me, I'm not the one arguing for nonsense that isn't canon anymore. I never said that the gestalt psychic field didn't do anything, only that it wasn't that extreme.

NagothDaCleaver wrote:This is not a "uneducated opinion, influenced by his religion,"

Yes it is.

He's a fething geneticist, he doesn't know anything about the finer points of mechanical and chemical engineering. Might as well ask a gynecologist to teach quantum physics. Or ask a quantum physicist to explain the systems ecology of life at the deepest depths of the ocean. Or ask a systems ecologist to explain the astrophysics of a black hole.

And what about Necron weapons?
Did any other race tried to use them?

Brother Coa wrote:And what about Necron weapons?
Did any other race tried to use them?

As far as I can tell, Necrons don't drop their guns, they dissapear along with the body back to the tomb.

ChrisWWII wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:And what about Necron weapons?
Did any other race tried to use them?

As far as I can tell, Necrons don't drop their guns, they dissapear along with the body back to the tomb.

I read somewhere ( can't remember ) that either Tau or AM get a hold on Necron Gauss blaster and examine it...
Seems that not all of their weapons disappear...

Melissia wrote:

NagothDaCleaver wrote:This is not a "uneducated opinion, influenced by his religion,"

Yes it is.

He's a fething geneticist, he doesn't know anything about the finer points of mechanical and chemical engineering. Might as well ask a gynecologist to teach quantum physics. Or ask a quantum physicist to explain the systems ecology of life at the deepest depths of the ocean. Or ask a systems ecologist to explain the astrophysics of a black hole.

i was only referring to that one sentence I quoted, and quoted again below, not the Magos's entire theory.

He's a scientist and can still observe whether or not something does or does not work whan used by a human, but thats really besides the point.
He doesn't say that he ran the tests or even made these observations
"Many captured Ork weapons and items of equipment do not work unless wielded by an Ork."

He doesn't say that he has tried them out or ran the tests, he just states this as a fact.

The next sentence however is the one in which he theorizes that the Ork tech works simple because Orks believe them to.
Now this can be summed up as an uneducated opinion influenced by his religion.

But either way, the fact is I agree with your argument and everything I posted supports it.