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I always imagined Flash Gitz as basically just ranged-oriented nobz, and that's how I wanted to balance them. Adding heavy weapons suits that image of them just fine, but at the same time, if they DID gain loota weapons I'd have to make them relentless to keep them superior to lootaboyz in shooting, which they should be at least at close range.

Hi all.
I am aware the current Flash gits entry has a specific purpouse in the current codex listings .

BUT if we are looking at more themed lists for Ork Klans, having the option of a long ranged anti tank unit, to be an alternative to the tank bustas mid to close range, and the PK wielding Biker Nob close assault,alternatives.Could be very useful?

If we work on the common(can be taken as troops,), specialised(1+) and restricted(0 to 1) notation.And add additional notes on eqipment...

EG.
Bad Moons.
Flash Gits* (Common)
Meganobz,Battle wagons ,Big gunz (specialised).
All other non troops choices are Restricted.


Notes;-
Bad Moons may upgrade ALL Orks boys to Ard Boys .
Bad Moons tend to attract thier own variety of flash gits detailed below..
Bad Moon Flash Gitz*.15 pts per model.
kaptin 4 2 4 4 2 3 3 7 4+
FlashGit 4 2 4 4 1 2 2 7 4+
Unit comp 5 to 10.
Infantry
Wargear.
'eavy armour
Snazzgun (ONLY dakka variety!)
Gitfinda

One FLash git may be upgraded to Kaptin for 20pts.
Half the Flash git mob (rounding down) may upgrade thier Snazz gun to a Sun Gun with a SupaSkope.
(If the flash Gits use the Supa skope properly the sun gun will always hits the target!But in the heat of battle the flash gits often get too exited to use the Supa Skope properly and miss completley!On a Roll of 4 + the flash gits line up the supa skope and hit the intended target. On a roll of 1 to 3 the Flash git is too impatient to kalibrate the Supa skope and misses completley!)

Sun gun (+ Supaskope) range 36" str 8 AP 2 Heavy 1 , melta -gets hot.

Blood Axes .
Kommandoes (Common )
Stormboys, Deff Koptas,Looted vehilces *(Specialised.)
All other non troop units are restricted.

Notes:-
Blood Axes are very likley to copy more convetional military structures of other races they fight with.And so they may replace thier trukks with Blood Axe looted vehicles instead!
Blood Axe looted vehicles are NOT affected by the 'dont press that!' special rule.And also get 15 pts of vehicle upgrades for free!

Deffskullz.
Lootas,(Common.)
Burna Boyz, Looted Wagons ,Big guns.(Specialised.)
All other non troop units are restricted.

Note.
As Deffskulls tend to aquire alot of stuff,(often without the owners knowing about it,) they tend to have a lot of grots to help carry it .All grot attendants (Ammo Runts, Grot Oilers and Grot orderlies ) are FREE!

Evil Sunz.
Warbikers (Common.)
Burna Boys, Warbuggies, and Battle wagon (Speicialised)
All other non Troop units are restricted.

Notes;-
ALL unfanty units HAVE to be mounted on bikes or in transport vehilces, but all vehilces get red paint job for FREE!

Goffs.
Nobs(Common)
Stormboys, Deffdreads, Killa Kans (Specialised)
All other non Troop units are restricted.

Notes;-
As Goff are always fighting up close and personal , they tend to grab the interest of far more pain boys than other Klans.All Goff Pain boys are half cost (Only +15 pts.)


Snake Bites .
New units to replace some current options perhaps? Boar boys , Squiggoth Madboys Wild boys ....replacing warbikes warbuggies, Battle wagons, deffkopters, stormboys

This is just a very rough outline of the idea.Open for discussion and lots of modification...

TTFN

I don't like the idea of such heavy restriction. I think one should start out with minor changes and then work one's way up from there, that's kinda what I was working on. But at the moment, there's so much disagreement that I'm just puttin' a hold on it until I finish my own sisters dex (which may be a while anyway).

Hi Mellissia.
Restricting non 'Klan' chioces to 0-1 , and making 'Klan specialists' a 1+, and adding a 'Klan Troop unit' is realy only one step from careful selection of units from the current codex.
(Note this does move away from HQ derived list determination.)

And adding a Klan bonus is also a good way of getting a strong themed army.(Points break on items or removing the limitation on some gear etc.)

To be fair I am basing a lot of my ideas on the old fluff and rules (RT-2nd ed and Epic SM.)So my OLD skool ideas may need tweeking to fit with the new game.

Apart from Snakebites ,(feral) and possibly Bad Moons(better BS) all other Klans can be covered quite well with existing units.

But additional units would help theme other Klans too?

Bad moons (Boys unit with BS3)

Blood axes (Ogryn ally unit?)

Deffskulls ?

Evil sunz?

Goffs (Skarboys +1Str +1 Int)

Snakebites
Runtmaster HQ chioce?

Boar boys replace warbikes?

Wild boys or supa grots.

Madboys.

Squiggoths replace battle wagon.

Or do you think a seperate feral list (similar to the one in WD ) would be better?

TTFN

The "restrictions" I talked about had more to do with the fact that you restricted "all other non-troop choices", which is a hideously bad idea. Why can't blood axez have battle wagons, for example? Battlewagons = leman russ gotten from mercenary work, for example. You need to think through your restrictions far, FAR, FAR more than you have, which is to say, you haven't.

That's why I'm of the idea that it shouldn't so much be a specific HQ choice, or specific units that are restricted, but rather certain conditions that have to be met before you can gain the benefits, like if you don't have anything that doesn't move more than 6" in the movement phase (vehicles and bikes) then you get a free inch of movement with all of them for Evil Suns.

If you have at least 2 units of Kommandos or Stormboyz, Snikrot or Zagstruk respectively count as HQ choices, for Blood Axes.

If you have two full units of Meganobz or two full units of Flash Gitz, you can take one upgrade of 5 points or less per unit free, for Bad Moons (more teef, see?)

If you have one unit of Lootas and one Looted Wagon, you can take a single vehicle from a different codex, minus one weapon and plus the Don't Touch That! rule, at codex price. (or, alternatively, you can have one extra Big Shoota in any mob, free) for Dethskulls.

If you have nothing with an Armour Value in your army, you can substitute Boarboys for Bikerboys, and include Squiggoths as a HS choice. Snakebites.

If you have no Lootas, Shootas, or Flash Gitz (maybe no Tankbustas?) You can have one unit of Nobs or Meganobs count as Troops (in addition to the ones allowed by the "Da Big Boss" rule.) for Goffs.

I don't like the restrictions you listed. Every warband is different and some have a mix of troops. It would probably be better to do things like they did with chaos space marines (each squad can chose it's clan) my idea is :

Goffs : Goff mobs are famous for being large. Goff mobs can take double the amount of boys that it is alowd to take- 10pts

Evil suns : Evil suns will modify there transports to get into battle faster. Any vehicle an evil suns mob starts the game in can move 6" more than usual- 15pts

Bad moons : Bad moons have accses to the best weapons teeth can buy. All evil suns weapons are twin-linked- 60pts

Blood axes : Blood axes are able to sneak up on the enemy. They gain the Scouts universal special rule- 40pts

Deathskulls : Deathskulls are have accses to a wide variety of wargear. For every 5 boyz one may be upgraded to take a big shoota or rockit launcher for reguar cost . In addition models in mega armour may take a kustom mega blasta- 10pts or a deffgun- 15pts. Upgrading the mob to be deathskulls costs- 30pts

Snakebites : Snakebites are used to poisen and keep poisen pets. Snakebites are imune to poisen weapons. In addition they may chose to wound on 5+ at the start of each combat, if they chose not to they fight as normal. If they chose to wound on a 5+ they do not get the advantage for having two close combat weapons (if they have them.- 20pts

Those're actually some pretty good ideas. I'd make the Goffs and Evil Sunz a bit more expensive, though, since that extra 6" of movement means nigh guarenteed Alpha-strike for mobs in Trukks, and double normal size is 60 boyz(!), which will quite literally wreck or tarpit anything.

For Deffskulls, maybe allow Burnas as another Special Weapon option? And have the KMB or deffgun replace the twin-linked shoota.

I really hate the fact you can't get fast BWs, maybe the BW may, in stead of taking a big gun or kilcannon, can take turbo engines as a added upgrade, counts as being fast. for the suns.

zilegil wrote:I really hate the fact you can't get fast BWs, maybe the BW may, in stead of taking a big gun or kilcannon, can take turbo engines as a added upgrade, counts as being fast. for the suns.

Thats almost exactly what I suggested for the evil suns

Hi all.
Just to be clear in a Klan themed list you want to keep the freedom of choice from the current ork codex , and ADD more bonuses for a Klan type?
Isnt that just a bit overpowered?


Making all 'non troop chioces' that go against Klan type' Restricted' just means you cant take more than ONE of that unit type, it does NOT mean you can not take ANY at all...
(As 40k overlord Andy Chamber did this for 3rd ed Orks in WD , I though it may be a good idea?)

So the Klan minded units outnumber the non klan minded units.

The thought of an alleged 'Goff Klan' with 3 Looters for elites, 3 deff copters for fast attack, and 3 big gunz for heavy support seems TOTALY WRONG!As these units are NOT Goff (stompy close assault,)themed units .


If you dont want themed Klans , just klan add ons to make Orks better in a variety of ways ,fair enough,Just say so.

Its just having played Orks in RT and 2nd ed (and Epic SM), properly themed Klans are far more fun to play IMO.
(Especialy with the old Madboy rules... )

Would you like me to post my ideas for additional units ?


TTFN

Lanrak wrote: Just to be clear in a Klan themed list you want to keep the freedom of choice from the current ork codex , and ADD more bonuses for a Klan type?

If you had read my first post, you would have noticed that this is not what I did.

What I did was grant a bonus and penalty in unison. Each bonus gets a penalty in equal severity to the bonus.

This avoids the nonsensical restrictions you placed. Mind you, I may not have done a good job in making sure the penalty is equal to the bonus, but it's still better than your "all other non-troops choices restricted" thing...

I love the idea of specialisations for specific clans, if anybody butSM will ever get a specific codex i think it'd be ork or guard and im hoping it is ork! I'd love to see a few clans of orks with specific rules and mod'd stats

I would not want clan rules if it meant I was restricted. The current ork codex means if you want to do a clan themed army you can.

Nice Idea but I'm not sure it would fully work.

First off: Lanrak, Saying "Hi all," or "Hi _insertnamehere_" At the beginning or all of your posts is extremly annoying and makes me want to shoot you. And if you respond to this post with "Hi Loota Boy" I really will shoot you, and your dog, too.

......Breath...Breath...Remember to breath....

Ok, now that that's all out of my system, I think it may be more appropriate to have the option for marks, like in chaos, exept they could be banners, or war totems or something. Then you could have a mixed ork army of many klans. Just my 2 cents, though.

My original extended Klan kulture used the number and type of odd boys to denote what Elite -fast attack and heavy support was available.

And the number of odd boys was controled by the selction of selected HQ types.
Bigmek, Painboss, Runtmaster Warboss.

Warboss allows 2 of each type of odd boy, mek, painboy, and runtherd.

Big meks allow 3 meks,1 painboy and 1runtherd.

Painboss allows 3 painboys.1 mekboy and 1 runtherd.

Runtmaster allows 3 runtherds, 1 mekboy and 1 painboy.

The oddboy requirement was in the shape of Orky Glyphs next to the unit.
Runtherd-Squig
Painboy- syringe
Mekboy -Spanner.

Eg fast attack.
Boarboys (Squig-Squig-Squig.)

WarBikes (Spanner)

Warbuggies (Spanner)

Stormboys (Painboy-Spanner)

Deffkopter (Spanner-Spanner)

Sort of 'ork marks' in the from of oddboys/glyphs.

I take it this was 2nd or 3rd edition?

It was for 3rd to 4th ed.

But a revision denoting the Glyphs a Klan generates could be a simple way to contol unit selection in an extended list perhaps?