Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok so you Kill Gadaffi. His sons take charge and wage an even greater war against the rebels.

Kill Gadaffi and his sons - another 'general' takes charge, and starts up the pretty much same situation.

Either you have to get fully involved, or not at all.

Well, I really think that if his son was involved, then it's a good thing we got him. But it's very unfortunate his grandchildren were killed, sine they likely were just civilians.

Matrim wrote:Ok so you Kill Gadaffi. His sons take charge and wage an even greater war against the rebels.

Kill Gadaffi and his sons - another 'general' takes charge, and starts up the pretty much same situation.

I don't think this is necessarily the case. Part of the UN's intelligence, as I understand it, is that Ghaddafi is an at least somewhat irrational dictator, and that once he is gone the people under him may not be so willing to shoot their fellow Libyans. They also get an immediate object lesson in their own mortality, once the guy who's been dominating and scaring them personally and ruling the country with an iron fist for decades is dead. By comparison with this guy who frightens them and they (even if only subconsciously) see as untouchable, they know themselves to be vulnerable.

Matrim wrote:Ok so you Kill Gadaffi. His sons take charge and wage an even greater war against the rebels.

Kill Gadaffi and his sons - another 'general' takes charge, and starts up the pretty much same situation.

Either you have to get fully involved, or not at all.

If Gaddafi and his sons died, there would be a power vacuum in the regime, which might lead to a total collapse, or an internal struggle for power. Either would give the Rebel Alliance a chance to get in there.

I remember something from when I was a child that one of Colonelissimo's sons was killed in the 80s by an air strike too. I would think at that time, probably was a child. I think it was Reagan era, they bombed his home. He wasn't home. Details are fuzzy childhood, but this was seen as a bad mistake then, as it was a child, and Colonelissimo publicly denounced the airstrikes for it, claiming that it was a cowardly attack and so on (IMO all attacks are cowardly, but that's another story).

Well little Billy is all grown up now and helps run a ruthless government through force just like daddy, so I see no reason to feel worried about the loss of his life. Oh no. How tragic. A born and bred dictator waiting to step up into the family business. How tragic. He could have done such great things with his life. If someone is keeping a score card, check off another box. The longer Colonel Dad continues to be a piece of gak, the more boxes are bound to get checked off until his box comes up and everybody can just move along.

Guitardian wrote:I remember something from when I was a child that one of Colonelissimo's sons was killed in the 80s by an air strike too. I would think at that time, probably was a child. I think it was Reagan era, they bombed his home. He wasn't home. Details are fuzzy childhood, but this was seen as a bad mistake then, as it was a child, and Colonelissimo publicly denounced the airstrikes for it, claiming that it was a cowardly attack and so on (IMO all attacks are cowardly, but that's another story)..

If I remember right it was Gaddafi's adopted daughter (or possibly daughter-in-law), not his son.

dogma wrote:

Guitardian wrote:I remember something from when I was a child that one of Colonelissimo's sons was killed in the 80s by an air strike too. I would think at that time, probably was a child. I think it was Reagan era, they bombed his home. He wasn't home. Details are fuzzy childhood, but this was seen as a bad mistake then, as it was a child, and Colonelissimo publicly denounced the airstrikes for it, claiming that it was a cowardly attack and so on (IMO all attacks are cowardly, but that's another story)..

If I remember right it was Gaddafi's adopted daughter (or possibly daughter-in-law), not his son.

Adopted daughter.

I have no qualms with targetting Gaddafi in this manner, but to label his son's, and grand-children's, home a 'command center' comes across as a little dubious.

The villa itself was likely not a military target, Colonel Gaddafi was. To pretend otherwise is wishful thinking.

Would it be possible to have a reduced-payload guided missile, for attacking his car, or when he is between buildings?

micahaphone wrote:Would it be possible to have a reduced-payload guided missile, for attacking his car, or when he is between buildings?

Seeing as the attack didn't actually kill him, it's the information on his exact whereabouts that's needed, not the payload.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

micahaphone wrote:Would it be possible to have a reduced-payload guided missile, for attacking his car, or when he is between buildings?

Seeing as the attack didn't actually kill him, it's the information on his exact whereabouts that's needed, not the payload.

We need more UAVs, or spy planes, or something!

Or....a racecar with C4 on it!!!

Lol

Karon wrote:Or....a racecar with C4 on it!!!

Lol

While we're at it, let's use both of the AC-130s we have over there to completely pummel wherever Quaddafi could be hiding! There'll be no significant collateral damage, or anything!

micahaphone wrote:

Karon wrote:Or....a racecar with C4 on it!!!

Lol

While we're at it, let's use both of the AC-130s we have over there to completely pummel wherever Quaddafi could be hiding! There'll be no significant collateral damage, or anything!

Only way to be sure?

Emperors Faithful wrote:

micahaphone wrote:

Karon wrote:Or....a racecar with C4 on it!!!

Lol

While we're at it, let's use both of the AC-130s we have over there to completely pummel wherever Quaddafi could be hiding! There'll be no significant collateral damage, or anything!

Only way to be sure?

Nah, then the oil would make our cars glow.

So that's 2 points for then?

micahaphone wrote:

Karon wrote:Or....a racecar with C4 on it!!!

Lol

While we're at it, let's use both of the AC-130s we have over there to completely pummel wherever Quaddafi could be hiding! There'll be no significant collateral damage, or anything!

That seemed to be the only response to that statement.

Emperors Faithful wrote:I have no qualms with targetting Gaddafi in this manner, but to label his son's, and grand-children's, home a 'command center' comes across as a little dubious.

The villa itself was likely not a military target, Colonel Gaddafi was. To pretend otherwise is wishful thinking.

Um, all accounts actually were that the villa was a command center. It's not entirely unheard of.


To put it in perspective: The White House, even though the President and his family reside within, would be considered an "enemy command center" were the UN to ever attack us.

Fox is saying that Osama Bin Laden was killed.

CNN is also saying that Bin Laden is dead, the president should be commenting on it soon.

Man, this is absolutely fething amazing.

halonachos wrote:Fox is saying that Osama Bin Laden was killed.

What?

Mike Noble wrote:

halonachos wrote:Fox is saying that Osama Bin Laden was killed.

What?

If you don't believe me turn on Fox news or CNN right now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.foxnews.com/

Typed it so fast they didn't spell it right.

halonachos wrote:

Mike Noble wrote:

halonachos wrote:Fox is saying that Osama Bin Laden was killed.

What?

If you don't believe me turn on Fox news or CNN right now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.foxnews.com/

Typed it so fast they didn't spell it right.

Yeah, just saw the other thread.

Just for the sake of this thread, Osama was supposedly killed in Pakistan and not in an attack in Libya. Thought the two were related due to the sudden news.

Kanluwen wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:I have no qualms with targetting Gaddafi in this manner, but to label his son's, and grand-children's, home a 'command center' comes across as a little dubious.

The villa itself was likely not a military target, Colonel Gaddafi was. To pretend otherwise is wishful thinking.

Um, all accounts actually were that the villa was a command center. It's not entirely unheard of.


To put it in perspective: The White House, even though the President and his family reside within, would be considered an "enemy command center" were the UN to ever attack us.

The White House is hardly comparable to a private villa.
Remember, this was not Gaddafi's home, he was just visiting.

To put it in perspective: If the president were to visit his mum's private mansion (or wherever she lives) that does not make her residence a command center, though it may be considered acceptable to attack anyway to get to the president.

Matrim wrote:Under UN, it is illegal to assasinate a political leader.

Cite? the UN can't make anything illegal, and authorized the appointed powers to take "all neccessary measures", so I don't see how that makes any sense.

I don't have any problem with assassinations, killing the guy in charge makes more sense as a response than killing some poor conscript who probably doesn't even know what's going on.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:I have no qualms with targetting Gaddafi in this manner, but to label his son's, and grand-children's, home a 'command center' comes across as a little dubious.

The villa itself was likely not a military target, Colonel Gaddafi was. To pretend otherwise is wishful thinking.

Um, all accounts actually were that the villa was a command center. It's not entirely unheard of.


To put it in perspective: The White House, even though the President and his family reside within, would be considered an "enemy command center" were the UN to ever attack us.

The White House is hardly comparable to a private villa.
Remember, this was not Gaddafi's home, he was just visiting.

It wasn't Gaddafi they were going after. It was his son, the next in line to seize power and one of Gaddafi's command echelon. We can't know for certain, but there have been rumors that like any third-world scumbag Gaddafi and his sons were entirely capable of running their operations out of their homes and specifically had their homes outfitted so that they could serve as command centers.

To put it in perspective: If the president were to visit his mum's private mansion (or wherever she lives) that does not make her residence a command center, though it may be considered acceptable to attack anyway to get to the president.

It makes her residence a command center when it's outfitted with military grade strategic assets to run a war from the comfort of your own home.

To give another example: Saddam's palaces were considered "command centers" because of the assets in place, allowing him to run any kind of offensive/defensive operation within. The reason they were never attacked is because it was known that children were on the premises, and never left.
Gaddafi's sons were reported to constantly have their families moving around and any real time intelligence is likely quickly to be invalidated because of this.

Kanluwen wrote:It wasn't Gaddafi they were going after. It was his son, the next in line to seize power and one of Gaddafi's command echelon. We can't know for certain, but there have been rumors that like any third-world scumbag Gaddafi and his sons were entirely capable of running their operations out of their homes and specifically had their homes outfitted so that they could serve as command centers.

If you're going to make a claim like that it should probably be backed up with evidence.

Gaddafi's sons were reported to constantly have their families moving around and any real time intelligence is likely quickly to be invalidated because of this.

Again, there should be some sort of source to support this.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:It wasn't Gaddafi they were going after. It was his son, the next in line to seize power and one of Gaddafi's command echelon. We can't know for certain, but there have been rumors that like any third-world scumbag Gaddafi and his sons were entirely capable of running their operations out of their homes and specifically had their homes outfitted so that they could serve as command centers.

If you're going to make a claim like that it should probably be backed up with evidence.

Gaddafi's sons were reported to constantly have their families moving around and any real time intelligence is likely quickly to be invalidated because of this.

Again, there should be some sort of source to support this.

Just like you should back up a claim that it was done intentionally, with no consideration of repercussions, perhaps.

I'm going off news reports from CNN at the beginning of the whole Libyan intervention. Gaddafi's sons are heavily involved in his activities--just like Saddam Hussein's sons were.

They're going to be targets, and they know it.

That first part comes across a bit too hostile.

It's not my intent. I'm just saying that to think that the collateral damage was done intentionally is silly. But it's inevitable in a situation like this.

Just a thought:

Might Gaddafi deliberately keep family nearby as shields? I don't really know.

I wouldn't be surprised if he did.